My Kibler SMR Build Log

[IanH]

A couple observations. You forgot to draw file your barrel before installing the sights. Also, the rear site was a real female dog because you didn't get all the sprue filed off the bottom as evidenced by the gouge it left in the bottom of the barrel dovetail, and even though you did the entry beveling I don't think you filed the front and back ends of the sight cleanly enough. I did zero work to my barrel dovetail but did a good bit of work to the sight itself and it went right in. I do all my pins and sights in from left out to left.

 

[IanH]

Oh, I forgot to add, when I was looking at my entry pipes and the beautiful, radius-ended machine inlets, the thought occurred to me to radius the ends of the pipes to match the wood rather than squaring the wood to match the pipes. I wanted to smooth the sharp edges that showed anyway so I wouldn't snag clothes or cut myself so I just filed and polished an aggressive enough radius on the pipe ends all the way around to match the inlet radius. Perfect fit. I had to file the tabs on all three pipes a LOT, so don't feel like the lone ranger there, the pipes Jim used in his video must have been a different batch with shorter tabs than the ones we got. No big deal, it's a standard thing to do on just about any build unless the rammer web is stupid thick.

 

[Redlemur60]

very last thing, is shorten pins leave long enough for easy removal till your all done

 

[wiscoaster]

A couple observations. You forgot to draw file your barrel before installing the sights. Also, the rear site was a real female dog because you didn't get all the sprue filed off the bottom as evidenced by the gouge it left in the bottom of the barrel dovetail, and even though you did the entry beveling I don't think you filed the front and back ends of the sight cleanly enough. I did zero work to my barrel dovetail but did a good bit of work to the sight itself and it went right in. I do all my pins and sights in from left out to left.

Keen eye, but the first pic of the sight bottom was before I cleaned off the sprue (I did do that as a troubleshooting step, and that didn't resolve the disengaging issue), and the gouges in the next pics are mostly due to my filing the dovetail. The front bevel on the rear sight was most definitely not well formed for engaging the dovetail cut. Must have been the one that slipped through QC.

You know, though, I'm confused about where the draw filing fits into his video steps. What you say makes perfect sense to me; barrel should be draw filed before sights.

<a few minutes pass>

I went to review his printed instruction sheets and draw filing does indeed come later. Installing sights is step #8 and metal finishing (beginning with draw filing) is step #11.

Take it up with Jim!! Hah!!

 

[wiscoaster]

Oh, I forgot to add, when I was looking at my entry pipes and the beautiful, radius-ended machine inlets, the thought occurred to me to radius the ends of the pipes to match the wood rather than squaring the wood to match the pipes.

Nice!!

 

[IanH]

Must have been the one that slipped through QC.

No. You keep making small comments about what you perceive as defects of some sort with the kit, which is what gives Jim and many here nightmares. I think part of this is you didn't know quite what to expect and even slightly experienced builders don't bother to talk much about all these tiny details much because it's sort of a "given", you know? We all know sights need to be filed to fit and it will be some careful work to get it right by hand, unlike most modern rifle sights. Most of us who have built one or two muzzleloaders know how things are supposed to fit with each other and interrelate with the wood, so as a newbie to it and not having that advantage you don't see the whole picture (such as with your tang bolts and TP inletting) and I think this makes you more likely to jump to the wrong conclusions about what you see...and blame the CNC program or quality control or whatever until suddenly you understand (after having made the wrong adjustments) and you're stuck patching your mistakes. I think maybe you should have started with a Pecatonica SMR kit so you'd really appreciate what all Jim has done for you like pre-drilling all the holes in the stock, installing the barrel lugs, tang, and TH liner, and giving you some castings that don't need 30 minutes with an angle grinder and hammer/anvil/torch to make fit. He went to a helluva lot of trouble to give us a top quality kit (watch his shop tour that includes his lost wax casting process and lock spring heat treatment for some insight), but it may be difficult to appreciate just what you have without the perspective of having built rifles from lesser kits.

The rear sight is a rough casting that's actually a very very good casting for having had no machining at all done to it other than the sprue cut off. It's up to the installer to do some light filing to make it fit. You did.

 

[wiscoaster]

OK, point made, and properly admonished. However, one thing to keep in mind is that if my perceptions are misperceptions due to the inexperience of a first time kit builder, that lead to wrong conclusions and mistakes, that's common to some degree or another for all first time kit builders?

 

[wiscoaster]

That being said, I do have plenty of experience with dove tailed sights on other guns, and in comparison to them, this one is pretty rough. If that's to be expected wrt to a muzzle loader, OK, I accept it, and will deal with it that way in the future.

From another POV - instead of just accepting "as-is", maybe this is one small detail by which making an improvement could make the already best in class even better?

 

[NRFord]

As Farragut said, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead."

 

[Jaeger73]

Here's a tip for fitting sights. Lap the sights until you can slide them in by hand a little and then use your tools to center them up. I have replaced many a factory sight on handguns with aftermarket sights and will lap them to death before a touch a dovetail. Sights are easy to replace. Looks like you are close to some finish work and burning some powder.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I'm starting to be offended by the way you guys are correcting his errors and lack of experience.
(Sarcasm)

 

[wiscoaster]

... will lap them to death before a touch a dovetail. Sights are easy to replace.

Yes. You can't imagine how I was scaring myself silly filing on that dovetail. It ended up working, but if it hadn't, I'd be buying a new barrel. The prudent course of action would have been to call Kibler and order a new sight.

 

[Eric Krewson]

All of us have screwed up a sight dovetail at one time or the other, usually by taking one too many passes with a dovetail file. All is fixable, a new barrel is never required, ball peen hammers come in handy to expend the sight base after the goof ups, if all else fails, new, longer sights that you can cut down to fit are readily available.

 

[Flintandsteel]

If you think Kibler kits are so difficult, try building some one else’s kit, or better yet, from a plank.
These kits are like Legos. Like I said before, 2 to 3 hrs to assemble from box opening to ready to finish.

 

[mikesto44]

Just for your information. If you ever decide to build from a plank of wood. Which would show you exactly how much work Jim has put into his kits. YOU might just start to grasp the information we are trying to give you.
When and if you do " build " a gun. You will learn that in letting the barrel and making sure it's properly fitted is one of the most important steps you do...!
Maybe if you had done one of the other kits on the market you would have a grasp of the quality of the Kibler kits.
Personally I think your way over complicating things....

 

[wiscoaster]

Build Log #21

Pinning the Barrel

I'm proceeding with barrel pinning, though I think the arguments for draw filing first have merit, I'm just sticking with the Kibler plan for now.

Before pinning, though, I take one last chance to dismount the barrel, mark it, and check for fit. A few tweaks might be in order. I can also check the pipe lugs to make sure they're flush with the channel. This one definitely is not:

... so it gets addressed, then barrel remounted to see if that adversely affected fit, and it did not.

I'm going to use the drill-through method, free-hand, so I want the target to be square with the world on two axes:

I find a drill bit in my "tiny bits" box that looks to be a shade smaller than 1/16 inch, so it can hopefully maintain orientation in the stock hole without drilling wood, and the plan is to drill through with the barrel in the stock, and then dismount to finish the job with a 1/16 inch bit:

I inserted the bit deep into the chuck for minimal wobble, and the stock is protected from the chuck with masking tape:

After drilling the hole, it's checked for alignment with a tiny nail to see if it pokes through:

I did break down and buy the jeweler's saw recommended by Kibler. The salesman assured me the provided blade was fine enough to fit through a 1/16 inch hole. It was not, so I had to take the drill again, and wallow out the hole a bit to get the blade through. Then I found that mounting and dismounting that blade was a three-handed job, so ended up just sawing by holding it in my fingers, and that's what I recommend: buy the blade and skip the frame.

After elongating the pin hole by sawing and then dressing with a needle file, I checked using a piece of pin stock for some fore and aft give but no up and down give:

Then cut and rounded pins and inserted:

And, believe it or not, all pins went in easily, are nice and snug, and nothing broken, nothing damaged, and no drama to report. The only thing to report is:

... that this rifle is fully assembled (sans ramrod tip & length), tested fully functional, and is ready for stock sanding and metal finishing.

BUT: there's one more thing, and I know it's gonna cause conniption fits when you find out ...

 

[wiscoaster]

...
Personally I think your way over complicating things....

But it's so much fun!! And you guys are being entertained, right?

 

[wiscoaster]

Build Log #22

That One More Thing

I want to make a toe plate. Out of this:

This steel bar stock is the perfect width. It's a little heavier:

... but I can disguise that by rounding the edges. And the back edge can be rounded into the butt plate extension.

The main question is how to deal with the toe plate's forward edge? I'm thinking of something like this:

... but if I have to inset it at the front then that inset cut would have to be ramped rear to front? Scary thought. Would it look too amateurish if I just lay it flat? The front end would kind of disappear out of sight, anyway. Maybe I could just bend the curved part a little so it's inlet and flush just at the front?

If I do this, it needs to be done before sanding. Opinions and ideas welcome. Thanks.

 

[SDSmlf]

Build Log #22

That One More Thing

I want to make a toe plate. Out of this:
View attachment 237841

This steel bar stock is the perfect width. It's a little heavier:
View attachment 237842
... but I can disguise that by rounding the edges. And the back edge can be rounded into the butt plate extension.

The main question is how to deal with the toe plate's forward edge? I'm thinking of something like this:View attachment 237843
... but if I have to inset it at the front then that inset cut would have to be ramped rear to front? Scary thought. Would it look too amateurish if I just lay it flat? The front end would kind of disappear out of sight, anyway.

If I do this, it needs to be done before sanding. Opinions and ideas welcome. Thanks.

Maybe check TOW for possible designs, though I’am going to suggest you not attempt installing one, unless you have become confident and skilled in how to use a chisel.

A chisel is more precise, but more difficult, and I have far less experience with the chisel than the file.

 

[wiscoaster]

Maybe check TOW for possible designs, ....

Sorry, but what's "TOW"??