My Kibler SMR Build Log

[IanH]

Gee, Wiscoaster, that looks familiar.....

This wild piece of ash (remember it was a reject that wasn't even up for sale as a B stock) shrunk a good bit, I was expecting more problems than I actually experienced though.

 

[SDSmlf]

Not on the SMR. The Woodsrunner does, but it's a step up in the production refinements at the Kibler shop.

Saw where the Woodsrunner butt plate was factory installed, though don’t know about the SMR. Reason I asked the question.

Also not a fan of the of the old screw hole trick of gluing some toothpicks into the existing holes when relocating holes. Find that drills and screws tend to follow the old hole if not completely filled. Reason I prefer drilling out for a dowel that’s glued into place to make the repair. I save the toothpick trick for grandma’s old jewelry box or cabinet with a wallowed out screw hole, but not on a new build gun, not to say it doesn’t work in a pinch, just don’t see it as a long term fix.

Another thing I do with the top screws on a butt plate is drill the pilot holes a bit forward in the stock so when the screws are installed they tend to pull the butt plate forward and keep the butt plate tight.

 

[wiscoaster]

...

Another thing I do with the top screws on a butt plate is drill the pilot holes a bit forward in the stock so when the screws are installed they tend to pull the butt plate forward and keep the butt plate tight.

Yes. The exisisting holes were only about half a hole diameter off, but in the wrong direction. I probably could have got by, but your hole location is best. I might even drill at a slight angle to get some more space between the new hole and the old hole. Titebond wood glue is pretty strong though, when it's dried, and pretty permanent, and I've never had a problem in other projects with a drill bit trying to follow the old hole, if it's complete filled solid with toothpick and glue. A proper fitting piece of wood is best, I'm sure, but I had none at the time, and I wanted it to set overnight. It should be fine.

 

[Jaeger73]

You could use a marker for your transfer medium. It's what I use, just make sure your metal parts are not oily.

 

[James Kibler]

You're overthinking many things. The screw holes will work perfect in the current location. No need to plug. If the buttplate didn't have the exact bend, put it in the vise and tweak it. Better to ask questions.

 

[James Kibler]

There is no need to plug the screw holes. Trust me. I've put more of these together than you can imagine. They are intentionally offset and a screw can tolerate some misalignment. Don't overthink things.

 

[James Kibler]

I don't mean to be difficult, but the problem with a thread like this is that if the poster isn't sure and competent it can appear as though there are issues that weren't right. This is then presented for others to see and they may draw the wrong conclusions.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the exposure and know you are excited, eager, and mean well. So thanks in this regard.

I'll follow this thread, so if something doesn't seem right, just ask. You can also just give me a call as well .

All the best,
Jim

 

[IanH]

There is no need to plug the screw holes. Trust me. I've put more of these together than you can imagine. They are intentionally offset and a screw can tolerate some misalignment. Don't overthink things.

I only plugged and redrilled mine because there was a fairly large gap at the heel on the back due to wood shrinkage and I needed to file the front of the butt plate, thus throwing off the hole alignment substantially. After a few trial fits using various tightening sequences there was a tendency for some gaps so I decided plugging and spotting on the milling machine using a center drill to prevent walking was best for THIS stock. This is no criticism or complaint of the design or placement of the pre-drilled holes, just the expected issues with an exotic piece of wood.

 

[James Kibler]

Without seeing the plate and stock, I can't say for sure, but this is unlikely unless extra wood has been removed. When you have two screws pulling the buttplate forward, there can be little tendency for gaps to develop while tightening. Same thing goes for the top extension screws. In addition screw holes are intentionally offset to help pull the plate in the right direction. Problems arise when wood is removed in the wrong places.

Not saying any of this occured, but I can only go by the likely hundreds of these I've assembled and the perceived problems I have seen others encounter.

 

[Tn poor boy]

Here one I just done this 4th one iv done

 

[IanH]

I don't mean to be difficult, but the problem with a thread like this is that if the poster isn't sure and competent it can appear as though there are issues that weren't right. This is then presented for others to see and they may draw the wrong conclusions.

I totally understand this, and you aren't being difficult at all. Threads like this can be perceived as critical reviews by some instead of a "blog" by Joe Customer.

When I pulled the lid off of my Woodsrunner kit I immediately had a good chuckle because the first thing I noticed was the buttplate, trigger guard, and entry pipe were already installed. My thought was "Jim just made his own life a lot simpler! " I also noticed the breech end of the barrel channel had been very, very gently squared with a chisel for a perfect fit, thus eliminating any oversight of that area by the installer. A few minutes of extra detail work can be quite prophylactic when trying to run a business.

 

[wiscoaster]

You're overthinking many things. The screw holes will work perfect in the current location. No need to plug. If the buttplate didn't have the exact bend, put it in the vise and tweak it. Better to ask questions.

Sorry Jim, no thanks. I don't like to bend stuff because on my pistol build I tried bending the trigger guard and it broke. It'll be fine the way it is. My woodworking skillset is adequate. It's my metal working skills that are lacking. I'd rather tweak the wood than the metal. Your way is best for most.

One thing should be remembered, though, about forums: ask a question and receive a dozen answers, all different. Your answer would be the correct answer, of course, but you're running a business. You can't spend that much time answering forum questions.

Thanks for your input.

 

[wiscoaster]

I don't mean to be difficult, but the problem with a thread like this is that if the poster isn't sure and competent it can appear as though there are issues that weren't right. This is then presented for others to see and they may draw the wrong conclusions.

That's true, and I think that I've made it quite clear that this rifle assembly log isn't meant at all to be a guide as to how it's supposed to be done. If anyone reading this thread IS getting that idea, then KNOCK IT OFF. The official guide is Jim's videos.

Mostly it's a personal log of a learning journey of sorts, and maybe at least partially entertainment. It's not a "how-to".

Yes, it's a log - it's a record of what was done (like a diary) - not a Q&A thread. I do ask questions, but normally in a separate thread, and only when I can't find an answer already posted.

 

[Rich44]

I don't mean to be difficult, but the problem with a thread like this is that if the poster isn't sure and competent it can appear as though there are issues that weren't right. This is then presented for others to see and they may draw the wrong conclusions.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the exposure and know you are excited, eager, and mean well. So thanks in this regard.

I'll follow this thread, so if something doesn't seem right, just ask. You can also just give me a call as well .

All the best,
Jim

Jim,

I am sure you will draw no harm, after all wiscoaster clarifies his build intentions and route very clearly.

Yes, that's my general approach to life. I forge ahead and learn "how it's supposed to go together" by making mistakes. I don't slow down; I go as fast as possible. My approach works for me because I have no patience, and further, I work best in crisis mode or when faced with a new challenge. But my approach is more prone to frustration and the expense of correcting my mistakes. My experience has been those mistakes are almost always correctable, and by making them I end up better understanding how the thing works, because I've learned by doing and suffering the pain or the loss, not just learning by reading the book or watching the video and not having suffered the pain or the loss. Pain and loss are marvelous teachers. Nothing to be afraid of, and I think in the end I learn more.

I'm simply not temperamentally well suited to doing it your way, which works well for you, and probably works best for most other people, so don't take it as criticism, just as "information." Thanks for your concern.

And, oh what the heck, I went ahead and futzed with it anyway:

 

[wiscoaster]

...unless extra wood has been removed. ...

Yes, your presumption is correct. It was removed by filing the stop to square it up and address a point of contact between the stop and the plate. In your video you use a chisel to do the same. A chisel is more precise, but more difficult, and I have far less experience with the chisel than the file.

But I couldn't find my file with the safe edge.

 

[wiscoaster]

Build Log #12 Update

Buttplate cont'd

I removed the casting stubs, resized and polished the screw heads, then did some additional fitment tweaking using the Sharpie transfer method, and I'm quite pleased to discover it works very well.

Then I drilled the new screw holes and discovered that didn't work well at all. The new holes were too close to the old - overlapping slightly even. And maybe the glue wasn't entirely cured, either. So I refilled the holes with JB Weld Kwikwood epoxy and that now needs to finish curing until the butt plate can be resumed.

 

[NRFord]

Nothing like making a simple 4 hour process into an agonizing procedure...
Sorry, for your struggles(self-induced) but a little more thorough study of the assembly videos or a call to Jim, would have certainly helped you. At least you seem to be enjoying the process.
To each his own, I suppose.

 

[COTNTOP]

I am thoroughly enjoying this thread. Planning on ordering me a Kibler, just not sure on which one and what type wood.

 

[SDSmlf]

Then I drilled the new screw holes and discovered that didn't work well at all. The new holes were too close to the old - overlapping slightly even. And maybe the glue wasn't entirely cured, either. So I refilled the holes with JB Weld Kwikwood epoxy and that now needs to finish curing until the butt plate can be resumed.

You may find that epoxies like JB don’t hold too well when wood screws are threaded directly into them. You will need to use minimal torque when you tighten the screws and once installed best to not remove them. You still have the option of drilling out for dowels if you’re not happy with the JB Weld.

Full speed ahead. I hear the danger associated with icebergs is greatly exaggerated.

 

[Rich44]

If nothing else, you got to be in awe of the honesty. This post is actually turning into a very informative and maybe a required read before building. Covers a lot of information.