Need a bit of advice

[Croppy Boy]

Lads, I need a bit of advice here. There's new firearms legislation going through over here and sabot ammunition is being restricted. This doesn't mean it's being banned but to use it you have to apply to the Chief Commissioner to possess it.

My question is, is a PRB a sabot round or not?

There's also an update to the explosive laws going through later in the year and this will probably lead to the outright banning of blackpowder. :cursing:

 

[nchawkeye]

Nope, a patched round ball is not a sabot...

 

[rabjr]

I'll probably get this wrong but isn't a sabot a break away shoe that holds a ball/bullet?

Theres no way they can put a patched ball in the same catagorie.

 

[musketman]

Sabots are made of plastic, like modern shotgun wad/cups.

Whereas roundballs are patched with cloth or even sometimes thin leather.

 

[Croppy Boy]

Thank you all for your answers. I can take it that a patch does not constitute a sabot. :hatsoff:

 

[vern faulkner]

:2 Hold on there for a minute Croppy Boy. Just remember who it is that is proposing this "save a life, and the rest of humanity" legislation. We here are all in agreement that a PRB is not a saboted projectile, but you are fighting against a life-form that does not allow facts and logic to get in the way of their manifesto's :hmm:. Over here, very few debates on firearms have been won based on truth or facts. I wish you well on this :thumbsup:. Vern

 

[rich64]

Hello to the camp and Dia duit Croppy boy.
I understand your frustration with the foolish laws that are threatening our recreation and way of life. These out of touch, corrupt bug-tit politicians are constantly trying to regulate things that they have no experience in or actual knowledge of.
We enthusiests of shooting sports are facing the a battle against us, waged by those in power and others that financialy back these traderous politicians.
Liberalism is a disease that is threatening the well being of all Free people.
I say it's time to count coup and remove these tyrants from power.
Well, I done for now.Sorry about turning this into a political rant. I hope to see you out in fur country someday.
Slan go foill, Croppy boy.

 

[MSW]

as they say on our side of the pond, when the government bans guns, only the government (and the criminals) will have guns.

after the successful banning and removal of all firearms from the civillian populace, the next handgun obtained by a civillian will be taken from the body of a dead police officer.

as regards the question of a sabot, as a former tank officer (and we use a good bit of sabot in the armor business) i can assure you that a sabot is a multi- part projectile, with the actual bullet/projectile (the gadget which will do the 'work' in a terminal ballistic sense) surrounded by a part or arrangement of parts which will fall away after the whole deal exits the muzzle. this allows the bullet/projectile to retain substantial muzzle velocity, thus improving ballistic efficiency by effectively increasing ballistic coefficient.

so, the answer to your question is no, prb would not count as a sabot. but, the real question is whether or not the people drafting the legislation know anything about technology of firearms.

and, of course, the underlying question is what's their real agenda? (shouldn't take rocket scientist to dope out that one).

sorry about the political tirade- check the actual wording of the legislation to see what it says. if it's like ours, the actual language is complete gobbledegook and can only be understood (and interpreted) by those who wrote it, which makes it hard to follow and really easy to enforce.

 

[paulvallandigham]

"as they say on our side of the pond, when the government bans guns, only the government (and the criminals) will have guns."

Isn't "government and criminals " in the same sentence an Oxymoron?? :rotf: :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[vern faulkner]

:thumbsup: Your exactly right. They are all morons. Vern

 

[crockett]

I would email the proper authority and ask for an email back on the PRB and then carry that with you so if there is ever any question in the field you can pull out your copy of the email and support your use of a prb. I do that here in the states if there is some confusion- and not just about guns. For example in some states predators are not "game animals" and the statutes say you cannot use an electric call to hunt any game animal BUT if you use an electric call on a yote, etc some fish and game cops think you are breaking the law- so you whip out your email from the Fish and Game headquarters and justify your actions.
NOW.....
I have absolutely no idea what firearm regulations there are in Ireland. Do you have to be licensed? Do guns have to be registered? Is there a limit on the number of guns you can own? The types of guns you can own? Are there public shooting ranges? Are there public lands you can hunt? Are there any organizations like the NRA?

 

[Tumblernotch]

I'll probably get this wrong but isn't a sabot a break away shoe that holds a ball/bullet?

Theres no way they can put a patched ball in the same catagorie.

Yes. A friend gave me some sabots for round ball about 25 years ago that I never used (still in a cabinet in my shed). I don't know whether anyone still makes them.

The only use for a sabot on a round ball is in artillery to keep the fuzes on shrapnel or case shot pointing forward. I can think of no reason to use them in small arms myself.

I too cannot see anyone lumping patched ball under the same category.

 

[erzengel]

:hatsoff:

But real and dangerous to us citizens. :cursing:

 

[erzengel]

You can use it to ban another category of wepaons if you need a reason above the simple statement that muzzle loaders are banned which is not enough.

It does not matter that the argumentation for a ban in such way is :youcrazy:

:barf:

 

[Tumblernotch]

You can use it to ban another category of wepaons if you need a reason above the simple statement that muzzle loaders are banned which is not enough.

It does not matter that the argumentation for a ban in such way is :youcrazy:

:barf:

I agree. Sane people like those of us who know the weapons we use and have a little common sense can call the liberal's (read facists and communists) arguments crazy and stupid, which they are. Many of them are simple dolts who know no better and are just following the lead of the dangerous ones who do know better but will not let the truth be known. I hope that made sense, it made me a little dizzy.

The bad thing is, those who are in power here and apparently in other countries are those idiots we're talking about and they will outlaw every mode of defense we have if they have their way. Since most of us who own firearms are law-abiding citizens, we'll be expected to bow to their wishes if they are passed into law even if it means laying down our arms. And, for the "greater good" or fear of imprisonment, many will. But I can tell you right now, there's a gonna be a lot of outlaws in this country, more than they have room in the prisons for. And here's a little tidbit: Tax revenues will drop drastically because they'll have to pay the army and police to hunt us all down and since we're the ones who bear most of the tax burden to start with, we won't be able to pay them if we're on the run, in prison or dead. Bet they never thought of that!
:grin:

 

[vern faulkner]

:2 Just a thought that come to me(don't happen too often), if a PRB is a sabot, how about a shotgun wad. Could be used in modern or M/L's Vern

 

[Tumblernotch]

Well...in a sense, yes. But there is quite a difference. A sabot for a single projectile serves one of two purposes. Either to keep the fuze pointing forward on a cannonball, or to allow an undersized conical (usually a copper jacketed or hard lead bullet) to engage the rifling in a small arm. Another use is of course as a gas check and to stabilize the penetrator rod of a tank gun round while in the barrel.

 

[Zonie]

A sabot, as we are defining it is a plastic sleeve intended to hold a smaller projectile as it passes down the bore.
That's the way we see it.

The problem that may come up though is that to some people who are not familiar with gun terminology, any "sleeve" or container could fit that description including a piece of cloth.

The people writing these laws apparently are trying to ban multi piece bullets? They may not even know that a muzzleloader shooting a roundball needs a patch to be effective and accurate.

I would suggest that Croppy Boy should contact the authorities who are writing this law and have them insert a clearly worded sentence that says something like, "Projectiles patched with cloth or leather are not subject to the restrictions of this ordinance."

 

[mykeal]

In the US most, if not all, legislation contains a definitions section in which terms relevant to the law are defined for the purposes of that piece of legislation. The definitions are often slightly different than common usage or contemporary dictionaries would contain, and the same word is often defined differently in different laws. This is on purpose, of course.

You might see if the legislation being considered contains such a definition - it might clear up the problem, or be a vehicle for doing so should your representative be willing to make it so.

In the mean time , from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

* Main Entry: sa·bot
* Pronunciation: \sa-ˈbō, ˈsa-(ˌ)bō, for 1b also ˈsa-bət\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: French
* Date: 1607

1 a : a wooden shoe worn in various European countries b (1) : a strap across the instep in a shoe especially of the sandal type (2) : a shoe having a sabot strap
2 : a thrust-transmitting carrier that positions a missile in a gun barrel or launching tube and that prevents the escape of gas ahead of the missile
3 : shoe 6

That definition would, I'm afraid, include a cloth patch around a round ball. If there's no definition of sabot in the proposed legislation it would seem prudent to pursue making that happen.

 

[rich64]

I guess the definition of a sabot is up to the cop who is questioning you. You just have to hope he is an educated recreational shooter himself. Otherwise you could be charged and jailed by a cop who is ignorant or is an antigun liberal, they are the ones you have to worry about.
The sabot law may also be aimed at inlines ml's. Do you see many who own them in Ireland?