New Shooter Here!

[Seancass]

Hey everybody! I'm new to the world of Blackpowder, but not to shooting in general. I recently traded into 5(!) BP guns and i was hoping you guys could tell me a little more about shooting them safely!

Please don't beat me up too bad on my vernacular. I'm American and speak English as poorly as most Americans!

I'd like to ask your opinion on recommended loads.

The first gun is a .31 CVA that has a trigger so light i'm not sure yet that i'll shoot it!

Next is the .44 Colt by CVA(1860 Navy?). Seems this website prefers something like 20gr FFg or FFFg with 20-ish gr of CoW or similar over top. If i can find it, i'll probably use .44 lubed wads. .454? LRB.

Next a .45(either CVA or traditions, maybe) Phillidelphia derringer. Load? 20-30gr FFg or FFFg? .440 patched ball. ???

Next the spanish Jukar .45. Same load?

Any danger in these with light or heavy loads?

Last is the .50 Traditions. Will these single shots prefer FFg or FFFg? I don't fully understand the difference. And againg, 20-40+?gr, .490 prb.

I do not intend to hunt with these, just punch paper and ring steel. I have shot BP before, but not for a long long time! Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

You didn't say if you had a powder measure but if you don't you will need one.
The adjustable kind are best to use with your collection because each gun will need a different powder load.

Because all of your pistols are percussion you can use either real black powder or one of the synthetic BP substitutes.
You do NOT want to buy pre shaped pellets for any of your guns.
Your pistols will work with either 3Fg or 2Fg real black powder, Pyrodex P or RS or Seven7seven.

No patches are used with Cap & Ball revolvers. The ball is forced directly into the cylinder with the loading lever.

The revolvers will use a ball size that is slightly larger than the bore or chambers in the cylinder.
This allows them to be sheared and forced into place.
The tight fit is needed to seal off the gunpowder from the flames of the firing chamber.
It also keeps the balls from moving forward during recoil.

The proper powder charge varies with what you want to do but basically there should be about 1 calibers depth left from the front of the cylinder to the top of the new powder charge.

If you want to load smaller powder charges you should know that most people have found that the best accuracy is obtained if the space between the smaller powder charge and the 1 ball diameter depth is filled with corn meal or Cream of Wheat.

Your .31 pistol is a replica of the Remington New Model Pocket pistol.
It would use a .320 diameter round ball.
The powder charge will be somewhere around 10 grains.

Your larger pistol is a replica of a Colt 1860 Army revolver, although to be totally correct it should have a steel frame.
This is a .44 caliber pistol that will use .451 to .457 diameter lead balls.
Normally, a steel framed Colt Army will use about 24-30 grains of powder but because your gun has a brass frame it is recommended that you keep the powder loads on the light side. Somewhere around 20-25 grains of powder will be about right.
This is one of the cases where the light powder load might work better if some corn meal is placed on top of the powder charge before loading the ball.

Many people place a layer of grease or thick patch lube over the loaded balls in the chambers.
This helps to provide lubrication for the bore to keep the fouling soft. Some feel it also serves as a barrier to prevent flames from the fired shot from setting off the adjacent chamber. (Chain fire).

It is very important to make sure that ALL of the percussion caps are snug fits on the nipples.
Either #10 or #11 may prove to be the best size.

Having caps on the nipples of loaded chambers is so important that I suggest that after each shot is taken you take a look at the caps on the unfired chambers. If one has fallen off, replace it before taking the next shot.
Failure to do this may result in a chain fire where multiple chambers fire at once.

The next pistol is a CVA Derringer which is usually made in .45 caliber.
Because it is a single shot it will use a lead ball patched with a piece of lubricated cloth.

A .45 caliber pistol will use a .440 diameter lead ball. The cloth patch normally used for pistols is thinner than the patch used for rifles so a patch thickness of .010-.013 should be about right.
Any tight weave cloth can be used but most people feel that cotton gives the best results.
The powder load for the Derringer can be as light as 10 grains but loads up to 25 grains will work.
Powder loads larger than that will be mainly wasted because of the short barrel.

Your .45 caliber Juker will use the same patch/ball but the powder load can be increased to 30 grains without a problem.

The .50 caliber gun will use the same patch but will need a .490 or .495 diameter ball.
The powder loads can be around 25-40 grains but usually the lighter loads will give better accuracy. They are also less likely to split the stock.

Have fun.

 

[Seancass]

Thanks for the great reply! I honestly appreciate you hitting the fine/beginner points! Some know these things so well that they forget to mention them!

I don't have any gear/supplies for shooting yet. I've been traveling for work since I got these and havn't yet had a chance for shopping! I was hoping to read up on them and get some replies before i went out and bought the wrong thing. There seems to be a lot of experimenting required with these guns! It's kind of exciting while also being a little intimidating!

I know i'm really looking forward to shooting the .44, but the .45's might be good starters to get me into the feel for things before i dive into the repeating arms!

However it works out, I'm very excited to get into this new(!) type of shooting! I'm a life long revolver shooter so why wouldn't i love some of the origional revolvers!

Again, thanks for the great reply and i hope that there will be range reports and happy stories in my future!

 

[msuspartan]

Welcome to the forum.
Zonie hit on all the best points of loading, shooting and etc.
He is one of the most knowledgable here and have learned much from him and so many of the others here.

BTW, nice selection and one last thing.....

HAVE A BLAST!!!!! :thumbsup:

Cheers, DonK

 

[Don]

Sounds like you knew more than you suspected as your thoughts on load size were pretty accurate. Zonie's further info is right on the money. Keep reading and asking questions and above all, HAVE FUN!

Don

 

[aeatwood]

One note on the revolvers - since they are brass framed, I would definitely go with 2F ( or Pyro RS) in the .44. The .31 will probably want 3F, and I would stay away from pyro or 777. The produce significantly higher pressures (and velocity) than bp. They are SAFE, mind you, but the brass frames will eventually shoot loose.

The single shots will be good with whatever powder you have tried and liked in the revolvers, although my tendency is use 2F for everything over .31.

 

[Seancass]

Thanks for the reply Alan. Is real BP very hard to come by? I still havn't had a chance to start shopping, but i'll be home this week!

Is there any danger in shooting the pyro or 777 in the single shots? Is it just a little hotter and somewhat abusive to cheaply(for lack of better word) made guns?

I appreciate all the great replies!

I've also started reading the manual i found for Traditions Muzzleloaders. http://www.possibleshop.com/did-you-know-traditions/d-y-k-53-l-s-c-ins.html

If that's un-allowed linking to another site, i'm sorry, but i thought it may help another new shooter who finds this thread!

 

[David W.]

You can try Powder, Inc. The minimum order is 5 lb. 3Fg is preferred in pistils, and many use 3Fg in larger bore rifles as well.

777 is difficult to ignite, so I'm told. I've never used it.

Most target loads are on the light side, so I would start with as light a charge as possible and work up from there.

Especially with the brass frame revolver, heavy loads tend to warp frames.

 

[aeatwood]

Not particularly hard to come by. The price goes WAY down if you buy a case, but it can be very competitive with the subs and as little as 5 lbs. And usually the dealers have no problems mixing granulations in an order, so you could get 3 cans of 3F, and 2 cans of 2F w/ no problems.

Locally, Pyro starts at $21 lb, and I can get powder from Jack's Powder Keg for $365 / 25 lbs delivered. That is including hazmat fees and shipping, and less than $15 lb. If you get bit hard by the bug, it is pretty easy to blow thru 25/lbs. Lasts me about a year and a half.

Alan

 

[Zonie]

Thanks for the reply Alan. Is real BP very hard to come by?

Real Black Powder is classified as an explosive so gun stores can't have it sitting on the shelf with the other powders. They must lock it in a secure vault. Because of this you have to ask the owner if they carry it. Often the regular sales people don't know they even have it.

Also, because it is an explosive it raises the shops insurance and there is not a big demand for it so a lot of stores don't bother carrying it.

It is best to call around and ask if the store carries "Real black powder".

Is there any danger in shooting the pyro or 777 in the single shots? Is it just a little hotter and somewhat abusive to cheaply(for lack of better word) made guns?

Pyrodex P or RS is just about the same as regular black powder so it creates about the same pressures and velocities.

777 is more powerful (grain for grain) than black powder or Pyrodex so most people use slightly smaller loads when using it.

 

[Adui]

Those are all percussion, I'd personally use Pyrodex P in em. It is what i use in my .50 rifle, and my .36 navy colt revolver.

That said, if you can afford the up front cost (I cant) then I recommend ordering 25lbs of real BP in fffg to get the cost savings over Pyro. Your pistols will all do well with that. If you are curious about the .45 and .50 cals, you could get a pound of ffg and test it, but my understanding is Pyrodex RS (ffg equivalent) is a bit harder to ignite. I've never used it, always Pyro P or Goex and no Goex in the last decade or more.