Newbie Dry Fire on my TC Hawken

[peters_ham]

Hi Everyone,

Well getting set up for deer season here - get out to a nice spot - set up a profile target 100 yards or so out - spotting scope sighted in...all set to go! All my gear out etc you get the picture :-(

Load her up - 60 grains powder (been going 60/65/70 to see how she shoots) .490 Ball. Tap her down nicely with patch, load the cap.

pop - no money. My first dry fire - so I load another cap - pop no money :-(

Packed all my shite up and off I went - sadly dissapointed- so I thought of you guys because I do not know what to do at this point.

I did tap her down a bit more with a set of pliers keeping my hand out of the way loaded another cap - nothing...

Anyways - I would appreciate it if you could lend some advice on what to do now? She is in the case in my trunk loaded up and I am at a loss as to what to do.

I am ready to get out there monday morning but now damn....I have to run out and get my buddies 12 Gauge as a backup.... (or I would search here for the solution but no time). Hoping its not a total disaster! (like bring to gun shop).

Anyways I appreciate any assistance!

Sean

 

[necchi]

Did ya dry ball it?

Next time, while at the range, remove the nipple and trickle a little powder directly in the hole under the nipple, tap on the gun a bit to settle the powder and add some more, repeat a few times. then once you know your nipple isn't blocked with crud, replace the nipple, cap it, point it safely don't rang and shoot.

The most common problem is a blocked nipple or fire channel.

In a hunting situation, or any for that matter,, once you load the main powder charge, tap on the side of the gun a few times. This will settle the powder charge down into the fire channel, then load the projectile and seat it.
If done properly, you should be able to remove the nipple and see the powder in the hole under the nipple.

 

[Billnpatti]

Been there, done that.......more times than I am willing to admit. the solution is a lot simpler than you might think. Most likely, you had some residual oil in your breach when you loaded and it messed up your powder charge. All you have to do is to remove your nipple and trickle as much powder as you can in the hole. Rap the side of the rifle to get as much powder in the hole as you can. Then blow away the excess and replace your nipple. Re-cap and shoot out the ball. Your main charge will most likely go off but even if it doesn't, if you got enough powder in the nipple hole, it will blow out the ball. Just be sure the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction because even if only the powder that you trickled in the hole goes off, the ball will go farther than you might think. If you are successful the first time, it will make enough noise that you will know the ball came out. If it doesn't make at least a loud popping noise (louder than just the cap going off), the ball may not have come out. In all likelihood, the ball will move some and leave a space where you can get some more powder in behind it. Remove the nipple and work a bit more powder in behind the ball and then RE-SEAT IT. Make absolutely sure that the ball is seated on the charge before firing again. Almost every time you do this, the ball will be blown out the first time. Rarely will you have to do it a second time but if you do have to do it a second time, be absolutely sure that the ball is seated on the charge or you can blow up your barrel or at least make a bulge in it. Don't feel bad about running into this problem, you are in good company because we have all done it at one time or another.........even if we lie about it and say that it has never happened to us. :haha:

 

[mooman76]

Good advice here. We usually pop a couple caps before we load for the first time after cleaning to dry out any residue. Some also and/or run an alcohol swab and then a dry patch down the bore to remove any residue. I store my gun muzzle down after cleaning any more so oil doesn't pool up at the bottom. If you had popped a couple more caps, it still may have fired.

 

[Rick Son]

Wy i never~

 

[gunner69skmc]

Had the same problem awhile back. I tried everything with no luck. Bought one of those airpowered load removers and wala.... out went the ball. Now I wipe my bore with an alcholol wipe, then pop three caps before the load. It works try it, but also bring the co2 discharger with you just in case....... :stir:

 

[azmntman]

I had a "friend" do that before....I advised "him" to take the (bolster) or cleaning? screw out vs the nipple and that way you can get a bit more powder in the drum than through the nipple hole (I would think, having never myself had this problem and having never ever loaded dry) hehehe... I only guessing. Works better for my "friends" than the nipple trick. All ya need is like 2-3 grins powder and it will go off and/or blow the dry load out 30-40 feet. SEE ABOVE re set the load firmly all the way or ya gonna be looking for a barrel.

 

[peters_ham]

Well - thank you for the recommendations.

When I cleaned that gun - I was not able to pull that niple out. I did not have the wrench for it - got the wrench last week but did not pull it out since it was firing OK....until now.

I did pull it out - was almost frozen and when I got it out I could see the rust and build up on it. So I gave it a good clean up - ran a pin through the hole and pushed out some gunk.

Used some oil to clean it up - dried it off a best I could - put it back on and popped a cap - nothing.

So I figure as noted above....I need to let it dry as I did oil the nipple a bit - and I need to clean down inside the insert area of the niple as the threads are rusty.

BUT. After thinking about the other day when I was cleaning barrel- I had a patch come out with a hole in it - did not think anything of it at first but maybe some part of the patch (cleaning patch) got left at the bottom of the barrel?

Either way I will try again tomorrow - but not crazy about too many experimentation's when messing with this type of problem...

It will be tough popping a few caps when hunting tho....my stand is out back and last thing I want to do is send out warning shots. Anyways I guess this is why we get the bugs out (I am the biggest bug) first before we go into the woods......

Big thanks Gents.
Sean

 

[peters_ham]

Thanks - definitely not a dry load...

You mean that screw under the niple? I tried turning that out last week and the top just came off...so only way that comes out is if I drill it out.

I guess I will try a few grains in the nipple cavity.

 

[peters_ham]

Thanks - I popped about 6 caps before I gave up actually.

She was mounted on the wall after I cleaned the gun...trying to remember the procedure when cleaning this last time - was not a major one just nipple and quick on bore as it was a short shoot.

 

[peters_ham]

Had the same problem awhile back. I tried everything with no luck. Bought one of those airpowered load removers and wala.... out went the ball. Now I wipe my bore with an alcholol wipe, then pop three caps before the load. It works try it, but also bring the co2 discharger with you just in case....... :stir:

may have to check into a load remover - I googled that but nothing came up - any direction you can send me to?

 

[mooman76]

Caps aren't that loud but I understand your reason. You could either pop a few before you go outside or even use a rag at the end of the barrel to help muzzle the sound or just make sure your rifle is completely dry inside by running a alcohol swab down the bore to dry it out followed by a couple dry patches before you load.

I'm not quite following the patch came out with a hole in it. Do you mean a large hole like bore size or just a tiny hole? I have never heard of that happening but that could be a problem.

 

[jethro224]

I'm getting the impression you're pretty new to muzzleloaders so I'll go into some details...

First thing that comes to mind is that maybe you haven't been cleaning right. Lots of new blackpowder shooters have a serious aversion to immersing their breech in water and pumping it up and down the barrel. That's really the best way to get it cleaned out down in all those nooks and crannies. Do it! It won't rust your barrel!
You should pull the nipple, put the breech into a sink or jug full of water and really flush it out by pumping a patched jag up and down the bore.
Then clean the nipple thoroughly in water too.

Also, be aware that the T/C has a "patent breech" or "chamber" at the bottom of the bore. This is a section where the "chamber" is slightly smaller in diameter than the bore. You may need a .36 or so caliber brush to get down in there and scrub it out good.

In addition to this is the flame channel that leads from the nipple to the chamber. This needs to be cleaned too. Any crud build up left in there can cause all kinds of ignition problems.

OK, now that we've covered cleaning, when you said that one of your patches came back out with a hole in it... was this by chance about a .36 caliber hole? I've seen where a jag can cut a hole out of the center of a cleaning patch when it contacts the edge of that "chamber" I mentioned. If this happened to you, you may have a small disc of patch material down in the bottom of your bore that is covering your flame channel.

Either way, I'd remove the nipple and take a pipe cleaner and clean out the flame channel as best I could. Then do as advised and trickle a bit of powder directly thru the nipple threads. Replace the nipple and fire the gun. This should work.
If it doesn't, you can try to blow it out with an air compressor using a rubber-tipped air nozzle pressed against the nipple hole. Or a ball screw and pull the load manually.

One more thing that probably doesn't have anything to do with your problem... When loading make sure the nipple is uncovered and the hammer is at half-cock. This allows the escaping air to carry powder down thru the flame channel to the base of the nipple for sure ignition.

Oh, and don't oil the nipple! Use a very little bit of anti-seize or choke tube grease on the threads. They also sell specific nipple grease.
Good and snug but not TIIIGGHHT when you put that nipple back in. :thumbsup:

 

[Billnpatti]

I agree with Jethro but here is another way of cleaning that I am finding to be quite effective.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/284454/post/1336094/hl//fromsearch/1/

The good old warm soapy water cleaning method is time tested and has proven to be an excellent cleaning method. It is important that you get the bore completely dry and then wiped down with a good oil such as Barricade. Other oils such as olive oil, bear oil, etc. will only provide a slight bit of protection from rust so use an oil that contains a rust preventive. Use Barricade, RemOil or even 3 in 1, just be sure that it contains a rust preventive. Before you load, be absolutely sure that all oil has been wiped out of your bore before pouring any powder in. If it ain't clean, it won't fire and the injuns will have your scalp. :hatsoff: Also, be sure to snap a cap before loading. Hold the muzzle down near a leaf or blade of grass and watch to see that it moves when the cap snaps. If it does, your fire channel is open and ready for loading. If you don't see any movement, do not load. Find out where the plug in your flash channel is and clear it before loading. Attention to detail is the answer to happy, trouble free and accurate shooting. :thumbsup:

And now for the rest of the story ...... www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

 

[peters_ham]

Thanks everyone. I am new to ML yes.

OK - I GOT it done - put about 20 powder grains in the nipple opening - and she fired.

I did do the bucket water clean thing - cleaned the heck out of the gun. Bore butter etc.

BUT I was not able to get the nipple out until yesterday so looks like that was the last piece of the puzzle for cleaning.

Told my GF - see if I did not have these guys covering my ass I would not have cleared that lead!

So big thanks to you all - I am learning a lot here and I appreciate it.

Sean

 

[jethro224]

:thumbsup: Now don't forget to post those successful hunter pics and story in the hunting forum.

 

[crockett]

peters ham: as others have said EVERY TIME to shoot you need to take the nipple off and run a pipe cleaner in there and get rid of all the residue. Black powder (and the substitutes)is corrosive. You have to clean it up.
If you take the barrel off the stock and stick the breech (nipple) end in soapy water and use a rag and ramrod- the cloth forms a suction and you can pump water in and out of the bore, breech, etc and get it clean.

 

[mooman76]

Good deal. Most anything can be done with them by the home shooter as long as he applies a little common since and perseverance.

 

[peters_ham]

For sure! I will report back.

Yes cleaning got it

She shot well today about 30 rounds near enough where I wanted...for now anyways.

Sean

 

[azmntman]

Do drill the hole with the broken screw out and if needed re-thread, get a replacement. Easier to load powder through the side vs the nipple for mis fires etc. I always clean with the nipple AND screw out.

good luck, now start finding the sweet load for THAT gun.