Non-Firing replica 1766 Charleville Infantry Musket

[Trot]

In this, and all other Sections and sub-sections of the N-SSA Rules and Bylaws, the notation of "approved" by designated N-SSA representative(s) shall mean that the item in question has been certified as meeting the dimensional, configuration, mechanical function and authenticity criteria of the N-SSA. It does not infer, or in any way guarantee, the safety of any particular item.

I love N-SSA's disclaimer. So many of these morons shoot these muskets year after year without cleaning them. Detractors like to point out failed India Muskets, however there are as many failed "approved" muskets on You Tube as there are India. Look 'em up. For any musket to fail like that there has to be an obstruction or constriction. You could shoot a blank out of a PVC pipe and it won't catastrophically fail as these pics show. Perhaps N-SSA should check to make sure the musket has been cleaned before a reenactor is allowed on the firing line. Semper Fi.

Better get your facts straight before making insulting statements like this! NSSA shooters are some of the most persnickety people in the sport when it comes to their firearms. They spend hundreds if not thousands of hours on lock and trigger tuning, barrel bedding, load development, and gun maintenance. I will guarantee you, not one of the thousands of shooters goes days without cleaning, let alone years! I hope some of the "moron" members of the NSSA on the forum chime in! @dave951 ?

 

[Brokennock]

I have bought about 50 muskets from him. They all needed vented, frizzen hardened and tuned

Narayan's BP's are almost always too long and have to be notched

And this equates to these being quality guns how?
If someone bought a modern firearm that needed this much work right out of the box they would, or should, get rid of it,,,, and yes, the company's reputation would wind up trash.

Why should someone buy a gun like this just to have to send it to someone to be worked on right away? Unless they know it going into it,,,,, and most don't.

 

[Carl.allen934]

Here a 1717 lock I assembled ….. take my word …. These Indian made guns are junk

Buy American

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Buy American

OK, who is an American manufacturer of flintlock muskets such as Brown Bess, Charleville, Trade Guns, Fusils and the pistols and accoutrements to go with them? I don't know of any. Semper Fi.

 

[FlinterNick]

OK, who is an American manufacturer of flintlock muskets such as Brown Bess, Charleville, Trade Guns, Fusils and the pistols and accoutrements to go with them? I don't know of any. Semper Fi.

There are plenty of them yes.

Regardless…. You’re suggesting there are no alternatives to Indian made junkers, and there are plenty of alternatives that will provide much higher quality.

As brokennock stated, how does one find value in a gun that needs to be fixed right out of the box? You pay 600-700 for a gun, and then another 200-500 for defarb work and repairs. You’re now up to the cost of a rifle shoppe kit or just shy of a pedersoli musket.

The Indian made gun in my shop does not spark, my fee for tuning up the lock is $100. $200 if i have to TIG weld anything or rebuild something which is often the case.

However, i have a sense of personal business ethics and will not do the work if i feel that it exceeds the cost basis with no added value. I send it back with a letter.

These Indian guns are money Pitts.

The best way for someone to obtain a quality musket for re-enacting is to search out a used one in decent condition, even used Italian, american and Japanese made reproductions carry value that will far exceed the cost of an Indian made gun.

 

[dave951]

The real issue here is some are personally invested in their opinion because of money. Fact, hands down, India muskets, while inexpensive, have widely varying quality issues. I've handled a couple, not impressed, better to save the bucks and get a Miroku.

PS. If anyone here buys an India Made Musket that needs to be vented and/or other work done, you can have it shipped directly to me from the supplier and I will safety inspect the musket. Pull the barrel, pull the breech plug and notch it if needed. Seal the breech plug. Vent the barrel. Tune the lock and harden the frizzen for $50 + shipping it to you. I will not do any repairs if the musket is unsafe. I've reworked many India Muskets. I know what I'm doing, and I know if it's made by an established maker or someone in their garage. When you get your musket. you will know it's been tested and safe. I will also include load data for you to follow.

Ok so Joe Tightwad buys an Indian musket for cheap and then has to pay more bucks in shipping and your labor to correct issues. Save up a few more bucks and buy a Miroku.

In this, and all other Sections and sub-sections of the N-SSA Rules and Bylaws, the notation of "approved" by designated N-SSA representative(s) shall mean that the item in question has been certified as meeting the dimensional, configuration, mechanical function and authenticity criteria of the N-SSA. It does not infer, or in any way guarantee, the safety of any particular item.

I love N-SSA's disclaimer. So many of these morons shoot these muskets year after year without cleaning them. Detractors like to point out failed India Muskets, however there are as many failed "approved" muskets on You Tube as there are India. Look 'em up. For any musket to fail like that there has to be an obstruction or constriction. You could shoot a blank out of a PVC pipe and it won't catastrophically fail as these pics show. Perhaps N-SSA should check to make sure the musket has been cleaned before a reenactor is allowed on the firing line. Semper Fi.

With regards to the N-SSA, you sir, show a complete lack of knowledge about what we do in the N-SSA and who the competitors are. We are hard core COMPETITION shooters. We do NOT allow Joe Reenactor to saunter up to the line to compete. To compete in the N-SSA, first you have to join the N-SSA and then join a team/unit. In that team/unit, everybody is mentored in safety and shooting technique. It's in everyone's interest for safety and to have the best shooting teammate on the line. That very thing precludes just walking up with a reenacting gun and starting shooting. Uncleaned muskets??? EVERY N-SSA member I know will do a "field clean" on their gun at the range at the close of competition and that "field clean" is probably better than many do elsewhere. The guns get a "detail clean" when getting home. N-SSA are "morons"?? Not hardly, more like you are the moron here for spouting off on something of which you know absolutely ZERO, NADA, ZILCH.

Enjoy your sub quality India muskets. I won't waste my money on one.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

There are plenty of them yes.

Regardless…. You’re suggesting there are no alternatives to Indian made junkers, and there are plenty of alternatives that will provide much higher quality.

As brokennock stated, how does one find value in a gun that needs to be fixed right out of the box? You pay 600-700 for a gun, and then another 200-500 for defarb work and repairs. You’re now up to the cost of a rifle shoppe kit or just shy of a pedersoli musket.

The Indian made gun in my shop does not spark, my fee for tuning up the lock is $100. $200 if i have to TIG weld anything or rebuild something which is often the case.

However, i have a sense of personal business ethics and will not do the work if i feel that it exceeds the cost basis with no added value. I send it back with a letter.

These Indian guns are money Pitts.

The best way for someone to obtain a quality musket for re-enacting is to search out a used one in decent condition, even used Italian, american and Japanese made reproductions carry value that will far exceed the cost of an Indian made gun.

WOW, here we go again. Name some American manufacturers of muskets. Not independent builders, manufacturers. You went off on a tangent again. Your fist line in your answer is, "There are plenty of them yes".
I'd like to know who they are. The rest of your statement has no bearing. However, WOW manure, $100 to $200 to tune a lock? May as well go buy a new one. I charge a max of $50 labor. That includes hardening the frizzen, fixing stripped threads and such. Plus, parts if the lock needs any. You have a real scam going there, so your ethics are questionable. Semper Fi.

 

[dave951]

WOW, here we go again. Name some American manufacturers of muskets. Not independent builders, manufacturers. You went off on a tangent again. Your fist line in your answer is, "There are plenty of them yes".
I'd like to know who they are. The rest of your statement has no bearing. However, WOW manure, $100 to $200 to tune a lock? May as well go buy a new one. I charge a max of $50 labor. That includes hardening the frizzen, fixing stripped threads and such. Plus, parts if the lock needs any. You have a real scam going there, so your ethics are questionable. Semper Fi.

Coming from someone who spouts off about the N-SSA of which you obviously know nothing, your opinion has no weight with me.

 

[FlinterNick]

WOW, here we go again. Name some American manufacturers of muskets. Not independent builders, manufacturers. You went off on a tangent again. Your fist line in your answer is, "There are plenty of them yes".
I'd like to know who they are. The rest of your statement has no bearing. However, WOW manure, $100 to $200 to tune a lock? May as well go buy a new one. I charge a max of $50 labor. That includes hardening the frizzen, fixing stripped threads and such. Plus, parts if the lock needs any. You have a real scam going there, so your ethics are questionable. Semper Fi.

Your opinion holds really no weight here
Proven yourself extremely incompetent. That simple fact you say don’t use a steel ramrod because it could generate a spark. Well, you must be one of the very few people on this planet that can actually do that. Anyone sending you a lock for $50 of repairs might as well get ready to ship it off to someone else to check your work

 

[dave951]

I will say this about India muskets. Some appear to be well made, most, not so much. Cheap, yup. Having handled some originals, I'm not that impressed by India muskets. If you like them, then bless yer little heart. Shoot and enjoy. I won't and it's not because I'm a gun manufacturer racist. It's because if something goes wrong or I need parts, that's not something that will be easily solved with an India made non-gun. Pedersoli has parts available as does Armisport. For reenactors or a casual shooter, this may not be an issue but if you put as many rounds downrange as we do, you darn well would care about this.

Pay yer money, make yer choice.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

OK, who is an American manufacturer of flintlock muskets such as Brown Bess, Charleville, Trade Guns, Fusils and the pistols and accoutrements to go with them? I don't know of any. Semper Fi.

I was.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

I was.

You were a builder, not a manufacturer. Perhaps I should clarify for the,,,,,,mmmmm, ummmmm, never mind. I'll call them 'mass producer'. I really didn't know the comprehension level I was addressing. Semper Fi.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Y

You were a builder, not a manufacturer. Perhaps I should clarify for the,,,,,,mmmmm, ummmmm, never mind. I'll call them 'mass producer'. I really didn't know the comprehension level I was addressing. Semper Fi.

Yep, I'm a dummy.

 

[Carl.allen934]

There are plenty of them yes.

Regardless…. You’re suggesting there are no alternatives to Indian made junkers, and there are plenty of alternatives that will provide much higher quality.

As brokennock stated, how does one find value in a gun that needs to be fixed right out of the box? You pay 600-700 for a gun, and then another 200-500 for defarb work and repairs. You’re now up to the cost of a rifle shoppe kit or just shy of a pedersoli musket.

The Indian made gun in my shop does not spark, my fee for tuning up the lock is $100. $200 if i have to TIG weld anything or rebuild something which is often the case.

However, i have a sense of personal business ethics and will not do the work if i feel that it exceeds the cost basis with no added value. I send it back with a letter.

These Indian guns are money Pitts.

The best way for someone to obtain a quality musket for re-enacting is to search out a used one in decent condition, even used Italian, american and Japanese made reproductions carry value that will far exceed the cost of an Indian made gun.

You could have one built I have built 2 smooth bore foulers could just as easy build a brown bess

 

[maillemaker]

Shop around , armi sport 1842s go for 1000k.

Your price is at the highest possible

Traditions™ 1842 Springfield Kit - Rifled Musket

Good luck finding one (assembled) these days for any price. They seem to be rare as hen's teeth lately,

 

[FlinterNick]

I will say this about India muskets. Some appear to be well made, most, not so much. Cheap, yup. Having handled some originals, I'm not that impressed by India muskets. If you like them, then bless yer little heart. Shoot and enjoy. I won't and it's not because I'm a gun manufacturer racist. It's because if something goes wrong or I need parts, that's not something that will be easily solved with an India made non-gun. Pedersoli has parts available as does Armisport. For reenactors or a casual shooter, this may not be an issue but if you put as many rounds downrange as we do, you darn well would care about this.

Pay yer money, make yer choice.

The only Indian made muskets I’ve ever seen worth it were buy a gun builder in the 1970’s, one of the very first. His products were sold and distributed in Europe and England, however… unlike the Indian guns out today… his were actual real firearms made from high quality parts and stocked in African Walnut and Turkish Walnut.. .the name escapes me but he made mostly french Charleville muskets, and third model brown bess muskets, many are actually on display at the Paris arms museum. Everyone now and then his guns are auctioned off and mistaken for pedersoli muskets. He stopped production in the 1980’s when India’s gun laws became much stricter.

 

[david w]

The only non-firing gun I ever had was when I was about 5 years old. It was a small limb from the sweet gum tree.

 

[FlinterNick]

You were a builder, not a manufacturer. Perhaps I should clarify for the,,,,,,mmmmm, ummmmm, never mind. I'll call them 'mass producer'. I really didn't know the comprehension level I was addressing. Semper Fi.

What would consider a lack of spare parts? Typically mass production has warranties and equities such spare parts …. Indian guns have neither …. Even denix toy guns have spare parts

 

[wganz]

Good luck finding one (assembled) these days for any price. They seem to be rare as hen's teeth lately,

Tell me about it.
You'd think that they were made from unobtanium.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Y

Yep, I'm a dummy.

LOL.