Yesterday was the 1st day of muzzleloading season here in the south. I got to take aim on nice 6 point at 30 yds. or so, and snap cap goes off no bang, put another primer on took aim and snap no bang. I was putting the 3rd primer on when he saw me move and he was gone. Got back to the truck and on the way out of the woods I am thing the nipple has to be stopped up. So I put a brand new hot shot on and primer goes off no bank. I put another primer on and snap the primer goes off then within a half a second or so the gun goes off. I have had this problem before with too much oil in the barrel. So this year before sighting in the rifle I ran a lot of patches through the barrel to make sure of no oil. Then I took some gun scrubber cleaner and sprayed down the barrel and the flash hole. More patches until clean and dry went to load gun and realized I left the balls at home. Two days latter I get back out ready to sight in I load the gun get on the bench and snap cap goes, but no bang. I put a new primer on and the gun goes off with a slight delay. So on Tuesday night I run a bunch of patches down the barrel etc.. I get ready to go in the woods last night I took some brake cleaner that remove all oily residue completely let it dry while I am changing clothes. I run another patch down the barrel snap two primer just to make sure loaded the gun and went in the woods, and no luck. I am shooting a Thompson Center Hawkens 50cal. with Hodgdon Prodex rs, cci no. 11 primers an Hot Shot Nipples. This was the first time I got to go hunting with my gun, and the thing I feared the most happened. Any suggestion in what I am doing wrong would be appreciated there are a couple real nice bucks on our place and don't want this happening again.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
not firing 1st time after cleaning
- Thread starter rbseagle
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
wayne terry
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2014
- Messages
- 339
- Reaction score
- 1
This is personal opion onily loose the pyrodex and get some Goex are whatever is ava. to you in your area but sounds like to me your flash hole might be bored out wrong someone else will tap in here shortley and get er done for you i'm sure; just never have liked the fake BP stuff but if it's all ya got are can get use it.
When you clean your TC your need to get a 32 or 35 cal wire brush and wrap a patch around it and clean powder chamber or patent breech. All kinds of crud in there if you never cleaned and dried before. You might want to plug nipple with toothpick and soak a few hours the first time.
Dave Rosenthal
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
- Messages
- 4,470
- Reaction score
- 24
I'm thinking that there is a trace of crud in the barrel that found its' way into the flash channel. Or the gun wasn't completely clean & oil-free prior to loading. Or your pyrodex has absorbed moisture & gone bad. Or you over-oiled the gun & then stored it muzzle-up instead of muzzle-down, which then drains oil into the flash channel (snail). Any combination of these factors can lead to a HANG FIRE CONDITION you describe.
When cleaning, use a range rod & a pumping action to dislodge all of the crud. Use a stiff brush or scraper to remove any hardened crud. Switch to a thin oil like Birchwood Casey Barricade & apply with wet patches so oil squirts-out nipple. Reassemble gun & store muzzle-down. Wipe with a patch on a worm to get all the way down into the breech. Then snap 2-3 caps to make sure ignition pathway is 100% clean & dry. THEN load the rifle. If your Pyrodex is any good it will go BANG w/ the first cap! If it doesn't, try new powder or buy REAL BLACK POWDER as previously suggested!
Once you figure-out what the real problem is & fix it, you'll be puttin' meat on the table! Good luck & if we can be of any more help, don't hesitate to ask or PM me!
Dave
NRA Distinguished Expert in ML Rifle & Pistol
Black Powder Hunter, Mentor
NRA CRSO
When cleaning, use a range rod & a pumping action to dislodge all of the crud. Use a stiff brush or scraper to remove any hardened crud. Switch to a thin oil like Birchwood Casey Barricade & apply with wet patches so oil squirts-out nipple. Reassemble gun & store muzzle-down. Wipe with a patch on a worm to get all the way down into the breech. Then snap 2-3 caps to make sure ignition pathway is 100% clean & dry. THEN load the rifle. If your Pyrodex is any good it will go BANG w/ the first cap! If it doesn't, try new powder or buy REAL BLACK POWDER as previously suggested!
Once you figure-out what the real problem is & fix it, you'll be puttin' meat on the table! Good luck & if we can be of any more help, don't hesitate to ask or PM me!
Dave
NRA Distinguished Expert in ML Rifle & Pistol
Black Powder Hunter, Mentor
NRA CRSO
When you snapped a couple of caps, did you point the muzzle at some grass to see if the flash channel was clear? The cap will make grass move.
With respect to your T/C, cleaning is best done with the barrel removed from the stock. Remove the nipple and follow previous instructions using a bucket of tap water hot soapy water. That should get all the crud out of the T/C patent breech. The technique that was described will result in a clean barrel and a breech packed with fouling. Even Pyrodex will make enough fouling to clog the breech if you push it down during cleaning. A standard cleaning jag can't clean the reduced chamber of the T/C breech. Use the flush method and a sub bore sized brush.
With respect to your T/C, cleaning is best done with the barrel removed from the stock. Remove the nipple and follow previous instructions using a bucket of tap water hot soapy water. That should get all the crud out of the T/C patent breech. The technique that was described will result in a clean barrel and a breech packed with fouling. Even Pyrodex will make enough fouling to clog the breech if you push it down during cleaning. A standard cleaning jag can't clean the reduced chamber of the T/C breech. Use the flush method and a sub bore sized brush.
I have a dremel wire brush that I have fitted to a ramrod. The brush is at the end of the steel tip, not along the sides. I use this little brush (about 1/4 dia) to clean out the bottom of the rifle. Crud gets in there and hard to clean out.
fleener
fleener
First off, I second the advice to pop a few caps before loading, but I would take a clean, dry patch and just place it in the muzzle, no more than half and inch down, then place a cap on and drop the hammer. If everything is clear then the force of the cap should send the patch out of the muzzle. If it doesn't move then you know that something is blocked or there is crud remaining. If there's no blockage then run an alcohol dampened patch down the bore. Use 91% rubbing alcohol. This will remove any remaining oil and dry up quickly so as not to foul your powder charge. Don't clean the bore with this patch, just down and up because you cleaned already, this is just to be sure to remove anything that could affect your powder. Finally, to ensure that you won't have another failure to fire while you've got a bead on that deer, after you've loaded powder and ball, remove the nipple and dribble in some more powder. Use a nipple pick or even a straightened safety pin to push 3-4 grains of powder in there and still have room for the nipple. Replace and make sure the nipple is snug but don't over tighten.
Good luck, I hope you find the problem. I also suggest that you switch to traditional black powder when you can. Oh, and as to your shooting patch, if it's dripping with lube then that will foul your powder and produce hang-fires/slow fires and FTF.
Good luck, I hope you find the problem. I also suggest that you switch to traditional black powder when you can. Oh, and as to your shooting patch, if it's dripping with lube then that will foul your powder and produce hang-fires/slow fires and FTF.
If you cant get enough real bp get enoghh so you can drop 10 grains or so behind your pyrodex. If you look under the thread about blowingdown the barrel you will find some discriptions of makeshift stuff you can do to blow a blast of air down the barrel before loading hearing air blew out the nipple is a good way of knowing the passage is free.
'cose you can get you a rock in the lock and be done with those nipple hugger :haha:
'cose you can get you a rock in the lock and be done with those nipple hugger :haha:
I myself have never had a problem with Pyrodex going off. After you clean and oil your gun store it for a few days or more muzzle down so any excess oil will run out. I also pop a few caps before loading just in case.
The patent breech (the devil's own invention) may need a good cleaning as discussed above. I remove the nipple, then use a bent pipe cleaner to get up into the patent breech, after cleaning with a tight patch in a bucket of water, followed by a blast of air from a compressor. Test by shooting several caps onto grass or dusty ground to see if it's clear.
As was mentioned, store your gun with the muzzle pointed down.
Any excess oil put into the bore will run out of the barrel rather than running back into the flame channel that connects the nipple with the bore.
Also, when your hunting and the gun has to fire, first time, every time make sure there is nothing sitting on the nipple when you load the gun.
This is needed to allow the air under the ball to blow some loose powder back toward the nipple.
Then, remove the nipple and dribble 1/2 grain or so of new powder into the threaded hole. Tap the gun a few times to get this extra powder to work its way down into the flame channel hole, then replace and cap the nipple.
Doing these things when target shooting is a PITA and usually not required.
Doing these things while hunting can make a success of the hunt.
Any excess oil put into the bore will run out of the barrel rather than running back into the flame channel that connects the nipple with the bore.
Also, when your hunting and the gun has to fire, first time, every time make sure there is nothing sitting on the nipple when you load the gun.
This is needed to allow the air under the ball to blow some loose powder back toward the nipple.
Then, remove the nipple and dribble 1/2 grain or so of new powder into the threaded hole. Tap the gun a few times to get this extra powder to work its way down into the flame channel hole, then replace and cap the nipple.
Doing these things when target shooting is a PITA and usually not required.
Doing these things while hunting can make a success of the hunt.
And I should have mentioned, if you are not doing so, get your gun out and shoot it often. That's the only way to get to know it and know what it takes to make it go bang every time.
If they say they don't have it ask to talk to the Dept manager. They have to keep it in the back so allot of employees don't even know they have it.
I put a patch on my Ramrod Jag push it down the barrel put on a cap on the TC BP Rifle point it down and pull the trigger.
Then pull the jag with the patch still on and look for black burnt patch center if so all is ok if not flash channel is plugged.
I agree with the others if you take the nipple off stick the breech in a bucket of hot soapy water and pump the Jag from muzzle to breech it will force all the crud out.
If you have crud caked up in the breech let the barrel sit in the hot soapy water for a while and repeat the process.
When I am shooting my TC Flint Lock I put my thumb on the flash hole and pour about an ounce of 91% Alcohol down the barrel let it sit for a minute or two then run a dry patch down the barrel.
Then pull the jag with the patch still on and look for black burnt patch center if so all is ok if not flash channel is plugged.
I agree with the others if you take the nipple off stick the breech in a bucket of hot soapy water and pump the Jag from muzzle to breech it will force all the crud out.
If you have crud caked up in the breech let the barrel sit in the hot soapy water for a while and repeat the process.
When I am shooting my TC Flint Lock I put my thumb on the flash hole and pour about an ounce of 91% Alcohol down the barrel let it sit for a minute or two then run a dry patch down the barrel.
I always load the gun with a half load and shoot a tree then reload for the day. If it goes off once yer good for the next shot. Too many deer have thumbed there noses at me from caps not setting the powder off. That way if you have a problem its corrected before you see the deer. Oh...be sure to do this a 1/3 mile or so from where you plan to hunt and try to be sure theres not a guy in a tent around the curve. Allot of folk get mad when ya shoot the tree in there camp???
george tennant
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2005
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 0
had same problem with pyrodex ,hafter hunting all day it would always hang fire for a half second ,souded like a flintlock going off ,it didnot matter how much i cleaned it or got the oil out or how many caps i snapped before loading ...got some geox real black powder ,problem solved ,,no more hesitation when going off
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2009
- Messages
- 2,979
- Reaction score
- 2,959
When cleaning the gun, remove the nipple and run a bristled pipe cleaner through the flash channel.
After the powder is loaded, but before loading the ball, turn the gun lock side down and give the stock a couple slaps to get some powder into the flash channel.
After the powder is loaded, but before loading the ball, turn the gun lock side down and give the stock a couple slaps to get some powder into the flash channel.
I used to have the same kind of trouble. My solution was prior to a hunt, I would clean my barrel with soap and water, dry it thoroughly, and add NO oil to anything. I also switched over to real blackpowder. My gun hasn't even thought about misfiring in years. It doesn't take a lot of oil residue to cause problems. I like to go out in the woods with a completely clean gun. Now when I'm done for the season or for an extended period, I will oil the gun. But prior to going back out on a hunt, I will again clean the barrel with soapy water and will add NO oil. Anyway, this works for me. We all have to figure out what works and what doesn't. Nothing more frustrating than drawing down on a nice deer and nothing happens. Trust me, I've been too many times myself. Good luck.
Jeff
Jeff
