On punk fire starting

[mglampson]

Some friends and I have been experimenting with fire starting useing material other than char cloth. Much has been said about punk, puffballs, tinder fungus etc, and we have yet to get anything to work like the char cloth. The problem doesn't seem to be catching the spark but transfering that heat to the tinder. We dried, not chared, some tinder fungus and it would take a spark. Then wrapped in our bird nest, no matter what was done the nest would not go to flame!?? The ember would glow hot and lots of smoke from the tinder. We tried tow, grass, paper thin birch bark, all dry but with no luck. We blew under the coal, over it, across it and all we got for the effort was dizzy. If we retried with the char cloth a flame could be produced in seconds. Isn't heat from one like heat from another? Am I missing some "trick" to this??
I believe on the frontier a fire starting medium would have been fairly readily availible and cloth would not have been it.
Can anybody help with this?

Britches

 

[boar]

I did it once out deer hunting while waiting for my buddy to come. I saw this dead maple snag and filled my lap with the punk , sparked into it for a while and lo I got a ember, once I got it you couldn't put it out,put it in tinder and had flame, was drinking tea when buddy showed up. Took same punk home and couldn't do it over?. Have made fire twice with fire bow, I can get smoke quick but run out off gas. Surviverman makes it look easy. Dilly

 

[ameling]

Starting a fire with the coal you have caught in Tinder Fungus or punky wood does take some practice. It is different from using charclothe. Yes, they both generate heat that you have to transfer to your tinder bundle - bird's nest. But the charclothe generates more heat much quicker - so you get your tinder bundle hotter. With tinder fungus or punky wood, you have a little coal that will last a long time, but the overall heat is less and spread out over a longer time.

What you have is similar to finding a little coal/ember left in your campfire, and then trying to nurse it back into a full fire. You have to make that mental transition from getting a lot of heat in a short time period (with charclothe) to a little bit of heat slowly building up and spreading out (with fungus and punk).

A note on tinder fungus. You don't have to dry it first. It will work just as it is found right off of the tree. And sometimes the fresh stuff works better. That reddish orange with white specks interior part, of course.

What works for me:

Once I catch my spark in a rice-grain sized chunk of tinder fungus or punky wood, I put it into my tinder bundle along with one or more larger chunks of fungus/punk. I want that spark to transfer and expand into the other chunks. This give me a larger coal to use to get my tinder bundle going. This is also a way to use up other chunks of fungus or punk that won't catch a spark by itself. The horse-hoof and shelf fungus won't catch a spark from your fire steel, but once your spark transfers into it, it is almost impossible to put out - and will spread throughout the whole chunk. Ditto any dry punky wood. So use the tinder fungus to CATCH your spark, but add some other chunks of fungus or punky wood to help build up and expand your coal. All this will help transfer that heat to your tinder bundle and go on to get your flames.

The key concept is to work on your tinder bundle like you just picked up a small coal/ember out of an existing campfire, and are using it to start a new fire. If you work like that, it should help.

Catching or getting that initial spark is the key. After that it's all "technique". And, of course, practice your technique in a normal setting - before you have to rely upon it out in the woods.

Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

yhs
Mike Ameling

p.s. A "cool" trick: Take a sheet of birch bark, scratch and frazzle up the surface, and roll it into a small tube around a chunk of tinder fungus near one end. Now catch your spark in another small piece of tinder fungus, and place that in the tube next to the other chunk. Carefully start to blow THROUGH the tube. As that bigger chunk gets glowing, it will start your frazzled birch bark to burning - instant blowtorch! But do this carefully! Your hands and LIPS will be very close to a whole lot of FIRE!

 

[George Holton]

Item of interest. the bark from river birch catches easily and burns hot.River birch is the one with shaggy pinkish color bark.

 

[wtilenw]

This is facinating to me. I recently purchased my first flint and steel. I have used charcloth too but would be interested in local fungi/bark, etc. that I could try myself. Anyone know of western species I might identify and try? :hmm:
Thanks,
Idaho PRB

 

[paulvallandigham]

The tinder has to be very dry or it will not " catch ". Even moisture from your own hand can dampen tinder enough to make it quit. It happened one very hot July morning to me, when I was demonstrating fire starting at a Girl Scout camp. I unraveled a new length of help rope to break the sections down to make tinder nest, and the sweat of my hands dampened the hemp enough that it would get black, and even get an ember going, but as soon as I removed my charred cloth from it, it would go out. I put the tinder on a rock in the sun, and about 10 minutes later it lit just fine.

As to your bow and drill, you do have to be careful how you choose materials from the fireboard, and spindle. I recommend willow, simply because it so widespread in availability. The other wood which is ubiquitous is Poplar, known as Aspen, or Cottonwood, depending on what part of the country you are in. You do have to remember what you are trying to accomplish when using a bow and drill, and that is to get a wad of glowing wood chips and saw dust burning in an ember in the cut in your fireboard. Use a sharp edge to cut grooves like pie cuts, in both the tip of the spindle, AND in the hole in your fireboard. That will created " roadbumps" as the two surfaces rub and ride over each other. Those ' bumps" will be the source of the sawdust embers you are trying to create. There is a limit to how much an edge on a single wedge cut in your fireboard can give you by way of sawdust. By cutting groove all around the spindle hole, you increase the surfaces that will have bits of wood knocked off by friction.

Tinder Fungus is best found on Birch trees. It looks like dry rot, but is hard, dense, and dry. You do have to dry it out in the sun, or indoors after taking it off a tree. Anything that contacts the ground or living plants or trees will take on moisture enough to not burn well at all. Pick your tinder for starting fires out of trees, where dead branches get entangled during storms. Even in a rain storm, those dead branches remain dry enough to give you a good fire. The same goes for old bird's nest, or any dry debris found in the crotch of trees, and under overhangs.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

A note on tinder fungus. You don't have to dry it first. It will work just as it is found right off of the tree. And sometimes the fresh stuff works better. That reddish orange with white specks interior part, of course.

I have found that artificially drying the tinder fungus can actually defeat the purpose.

 

[mglampson]

Good points and thank you all. I have used very thin pices of birch bark, after 2 days of rain, and used it as a tinder bundle that took to flame with the char cloth. I will keep trying.

Britches

 

[[email protected]]

Try dryer lint. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree with this. Do not dry the stuff in a microwave, or even an oven. It will take on the moisture in the air in your kitchen and often be wetter when it comes out than whan you put it in. Think of how you soften a stale muffin by zapping it in your microwave. Definitely not what you want to do with fungus.

Use direct sun to dry the fungus. . If you do take it indoors, put it in a South-facing window to bake in the sunlight. Then store it in a plastic container, or in wax paper, or oilcloth, or oil-soaked leather, etc. to carry on your treks.

It will take an ember right off the tree, however. It may not flare up very well, but that is not what the purpose of using tinder fungus is. It is a replacement for using Charred cloth to catch sparks. It up to you to find the right dry materials to use that ember to start a fire. Birch bark has oil in it, and the thin strips of birch bark that peel off the trees every Spring are a great source of tinder to harvest each year. You usually can collect enough of it off one tree to last you all year making fires. Late April, May, and June are the months to collect the bark. With ornamental birches being planted all over the country, even in area too hot for the trees to last long, you can usually find a tree somewhere to harvest strips of bark from.

 

[R. Miller]

the inner bark of western red cedar.schredded works.........sw

 

[douglas34474]

I have taken punk wood and mushrooms and put them in my charing can I use to make charred cloth. They both caught sparks and started my tinder just as good as charred cloth. Not sure if thats how you should use it. Honestly can't remember were I learned to do it that way, but for me it worked.

I do know that I had little luck with punk wood before I charred it.

Here in Florida I use the thatch from the cabbage palms as tinder. The stuff lights up like you put lighter fluid on it.

Now I always have cloth, punk and thatch in my fire kit in my possibles bag.

 

[2Tip]

Mike,

Can you explaing a little more about what kind of fungus the "Tinder Fungus" is that you are having success with? Where do you find it? What kind of tree does it grow on?

 

[TANSTAAFL]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Tinder+fungus

 

[2Tip]

Thanks!

Seldom has Google been more enlightening.

"History
Humans have long known of the uses of the birch tinder fungus - the famous "Oetzi Iceman", who died more than 5000 years ago on an Alpine glacier in Italy and whose body was found in the melting ice in 1991, was carrying a piece of tinder fungus (in this case, fomes fomentarius) in a leather pouch. It is likely that it was in common use as a natural tinder well before this."

I'll look for Fomes fomentarius on the red river birch here in the West. I'm guessing it's easier to find on the white birch common east of the Rocky Mountains.

Come to think about it, I know a forest pathologist I'll ask about Fomes fomentarius in the West.

This could be the best thing since sliced bread!

 

[djnye]

actually he was carrying two types of fungus. the one you are refering to is often called horse hoof fungus and needs processing into amadou[sp.] to be useful i firestarting. the second one he carried is innotus obliquis, better known as chaga, skatagan(ojibwe), or at times referred to as either tinder fungus or 'false' tinder fungus. this is the one that appears as a black gall on the side of birches and resembles a burnt stub of a limb. it is 100% fatal to the tree. if you find one that is still on a living tree that appears healthy that is what you are looking for. it takes several years for the skatagan to kill the tree and by the time the tree is dead the skatagan is old and tired and hard and not of much value. however, if you break off a fresh piece you will find a cinnamon colored inside. if it is fresh you will be able to find some of the core that is very soft and light and spongy(from a few tablespoons-full to several cups on a big one). this is the magic stuff that will catch parks easily and last for many years. by the way, this conck concentrates the betulin from the bark of the birch and has probably the highest concentration of anti-oxident of any plant and presently is being researched as a potential cancer medication. oddly enough in folk medicine both here and in northern eur-asia it is considered a medicine for cancer and diabetes. go figure.

take care, daniel

 

[2Tip]

A little more research revealed tht in the West we have only false tinder fungus growing primarily on aspen, cottonwood, and willow. False tinder fungus is supposed to have some of the same medicinal qualities as the tinder fungus common on birch and beech trees in the East. Some American Indians and the indigineous people of Siberia are reported to have mixed it with their tobacco for smoking.

I need to do some testing and experimenting with false tinder fungus to see if it works as well as tinder fungus. They are closely related and the fruiting bodies are similar so in theory it should catch a spark. Reportedly how it is dried and stored is pretty important to how effectively it will subsitute for char.

 

[djnye]

when you read and talk to different sources you will find the terms 'tinder fungus' and 'false tinder fungus' to be reversed often. the only similarity is that they are both fungus but innotus(chaga, skatagan, 'bear ****', etc.) that grows on birches is not a fruiting body, but rather is a sterile conck whose primary value is in keeping the waterproof bark of birch seperated which allows moisture to enter and nourish the mycillium inside the tree. the other fungus you mention is a fruiting body of the polypore variety.

the skatagan from the birch needs no special preparation, though it functions better after a couple of days from removal. lots of people develop 'little theories' about how to prepare and process materials that are in fact silly. experimentation is probably a better guide than trying to blend a bunch of advice.

the preparation of 'amadou'[sp] is more involved and i have little experience with it so i cannot comment, but the fact that iceman carried both suggests that charcloth is the newcomer on the block as far as sparkcatching goes.

take care and have fun in your investigations, by the way mugwart also catches sparks(it howeeer, is an european import).

daniel

 

[2Tip]

Daniel,

You have a larger fungal vocabulary than I have.

It's fascinating that the Ice Man carried tinder fungus, but I suppose we'll never know if he was carrying it for tinder, medicinal value, or both.

Did the Ice Man also have a flint and steel in his pouch? If not then maybe the he was carrying the fungus was for medicine rather than tinder.

 

[djnye]

i believe h was carrying flint and iron pyrite.

take care, daniel