Pillow Ticking "Shot Cups"

[rabjr]

Beats the heck out the "honey-dos" I been saddled with lately, ha :grin:

Waya

Ah, man. You busted me sooooo bad! :grin:

One heads up. I've been corresponding with Swampy, and comparing notes. My patches are "over-lubed", or at least have a lot more lube on them than I planned. The stuff just oozes out when I seat the patch. I wiped a bunch off for the photo, it was so "bad."

Yet I'm having now sweat in seating them. He's building the tube right now and not shooting yet, but dry patches have been a booger to seat.

Speak up if I've misrepresented anything or you've gained more insights, Swampy! I don't want to put words in your mouth.

I was thinking of cutting way back on lube in the next batch of patches I make, but I'm going to kind of creap up on it I think. Maybe lube some different ways to see if there's some minimum amount of lube I need for easy loading.

Speriments. I love em! :thumbsup:

Nope you covered it. :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

Brown Bears original thought is definately best for a .12ga or bigger bore. In the .20ga the stem just proves to thin to drill out. I don't think it will reliably feed the pellets and the walls of the stem would be left to thin and if made of wood, will break in no time.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Something to think about:

I would be concerned with all the material that must be folded over inside the barrel, When using a ROUND patch to make these cups. You have no control on how many folds, or where the material folds. That condition makes necessarily for a longer column of shot, because of the space taken up by the folds, does it NOT?

For a 12 gauge, assuming for argument that it will be roughly .73 caliber, a strip of mattress ticking, 1.1466" wide, put down the barrel, so that both ends stick out of the muzzle, to form the cup will complete cover the circumference of the bore. ( .73" x 3.1416( Pi) divided by 2 = 1.146688.)A little overlap won't hurt, so strips cut 1.1562" or 1 5/32" wide, will form that cup without the folds and without the tight squeeze required of the folds.

This use do fabric strips is the idea that Makesumsmoke described several months ago. Bill Martin tested the idea and got improved shot patterns using this in his shotgun. He shot enough patterns to find the patterns were more consistent, shot after shot, than if he loaded bare lead balls in his guns.

I believe the same kind of combination loader/shot measure could be used with the strip idea, as BB is using with his round patch idea. The difference is that the strip does not require folds, nor produce them, the shot load will be shorter, in the cup, and leave the bore together when fired.

As to tightening up the patterns further, I believe something like the old Alcan plastic cups, ( not available now) but made from index card stock, or cut from a sheet of mylar and inserted into the fabric cup, will improve the down range patterns. The idea is not new. Shirt Collars were make of paper back in the 19th century, and buttoned to the shirts.

A strip of card stock, or plastic, long enough to cover the circumference of the inside of the cup, and wide enough to protect the entire length of the shot load, is all that is needed. Roll it around a finger, and stick it down the muzzle into the cup. Then pour in the load of shot. The combination shot measure/ funnel can spread the insert wide so it sticks to the sides of the oiled fabric.

 

[rabjr]

We've been discusing the patches. I have 3 3/4" by 3 3/4" square .015 patches I am working with and once I find how much I need for the shot being used I will trim them.

 

[majg1234]

well Im excited...someone earlier suggested copper tubing as a substitution for what BB had made with wood,I don't have a wood lathe but had some soft copper tubing in 1/2"(20ga) and hard tubing in 1/2 inch(12ga) from previous "honey do" jobs...a bathroom in the basement!! well a little work with a tubing cutter a flaring tool and bingo it worked,the diameter of each is such that with .015 ticking soaked in olive oil and beeswax it will slide down the barrel.The starters were made of different lengths to accomodate 7/8 oz & 1oz for the 20ga and 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 for the 12ga Didn't get to pattern them yet but the fowler did take out some Tree Rats this afternoon in the mountains :thumbsup: Did have a little "bridging" with the #5 shot I use but by thumping the side of the starter they fell into the cup,I'll try the 12 ga next and give a report.The flaring made a nice funnel on each tube and they just sit in the muzzle until you take them out and then place an OS card on them and ram the whole shebang down the tube wooooohooooo thanks for the idea BB :bow:

 

[rabjr]

Nice! :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Ok, I had to resort to plan B. I'm making one for a .20 ga and found the stem was to thin after getting it down to where a .015 patch could be pushed inside without much effort. Drilling it so pellets can drop down with no problem leaves very thin walls, so... I decided for mine I would just make it solid with a cup on top that will hold an oz and 1/4 or an oz and 1/2 of shot for Turkeys. Maybe I'll make one or two more that hold differant charges but it will be many for Turkeys.

Wow! What a good idea. My wife would even call it "an elegant solution!" I'm gonna show her this pic and tell her I really NEED a lathe! :rotf:

 

[BrownBear]

well Im excited...someone earlier suggested copper tubing as a substitution for what BB had made with wood,I don't have a wood lathe but had some soft copper tubing in 1/2"(20ga) and hard tubing in 1/2 inch(12ga) from previous "honey do" jobs...a bathroom in the basement!! well a little work with a tubing cutter a flaring tool and bingo it worked,the diameter of each is such that with .015 ticking soaked in olive oil and beeswax it will slide down the barrel.The starters were made of different lengths to accomodate 7/8 oz & 1oz for the 20ga and 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 for the 12ga Didn't get to pattern them yet but the fowler did take out some Tree Rats this afternoon in the mountains :thumbsup: Did have a little "bridging" with the #5 shot I use but by thumping the side of the starter they fell into the cup,I'll try the 12 ga next and give a report.The flaring made a nice funnel on each tube and they just sit in the muzzle until you take them out and then place an OS card on them and ram the whole shebang down the tube wooooohooooo thanks for the idea BB :bow:

Excellent! Another sign of my honey-do failings.... No copper tubing scraps. :rotf:

 

[rabjr]

:hmm: After sitting back and lookin at the one I made, I should make another line 1/4" above the one I already put on it and gouge it out a little to wrap a lanyard around it.

 

[rabjr]

Heres a 1 1/4" wide 3 3/4" long patch strip loaded into a .20ga barrel. :hmm:

 

[Twice boom]

Heres a 1 1/4" wide 3 3/4" long patch strip loaded into a .20ga barrel. :hmm:

Looking good.

Just wondering if you might be able to fold the remaining ticking over the shot along with a dab of super glue to hold it in the folded position. Place over the shot card and shove it home. I’m thinking by folding over and applying the super glue you will be making a cloth shot cartridge.

What do you think.
Twice.

 

[rabjr]

I'm sure you could. And if one wanted to they could make a + with two thiner strips and glue those together where they cross. But what I plan on doing is is trimming this further (long ways) after I measure out an oz and 1/2 of shot just making a cup.

 

[Twice boom]

Just wondered if it was optional.

Thanks.
Twice

 

[Coot]

If I recall correctly, there was some earlier discussion on the forum & someone had tried using paper cartridges to hold shot. Maybe tied shut with thread or maybe folded & glued - results were erratic opening of the shot cartridge with a couple of rounds simply making a single ragged hole in the pattern paper at 20yds. Seems that gluing or using a stitch or two on the patching cup might have similar problems. No harm to try though. Hopefully someone else has better memory of search results.

 

[majg1234]

so you are using a strip o cloth ??? right?? yesterday I used a square of Pillow ticking about 2" square...did have some bunching as paul discussed but the Tree Rats didn't notice :wink: Next will come some sessions @ the patterning boards for the fowler,SXS 20 and SXS 12 and the New Englander....My work is never done :rotf:

 

[roundball]

"...super glue to hold it in the folded position..."

I'm sure you could

He could buy the period correct super glue at the same place that that sells jug chokes
:rotf:

 

[rabjr]

Yep a 1 1/4" wide 3 3/4" long patch strip. You can see where the two sides come together and just cover the entire bore. It created two small folds in the very bottom. Just enough patch materal to protect the bore from lead. I'll trim the length just to the top of a charge of shot.

 

[BrownBear]

Man, that looks just right!

 

[BrownBear]

Yep a 1 1/4" wide 3 3/4" long patch strip. You can see where the two sides come together and just cover the entire bore. It created two small folds in the very bottom. Just enough patch materal to protect the bore from lead. I'll trim the length just to the top of a charge of shot.

I think you're onto something with the strip. I'm not a true fan of precut patches, and never seem to get them exactly centered. It doesn't seem to matter, but it bugs me anyway. At the very least, I think a roll of patching would be easier to pre-lube.

I'm guessing 12 gauge will require a strip over 2" based on what I've seen so far with round patches, but due to less overlap it certainly wouldn't need to be 3" like my round ones.

Shooting tests required, no doubt. Better weather required, too! :rotf:

I'm kinda wondering about something, grounds for more shooting. I suspect well-lubed grocery sack will seat about as easy as the fabric while giving a little more room around the seater, a plus for 20 gauge and smaller. It's flexible enough to act like cloth when seating, especially with a good grease, but pretty tough. My head tells me it won't protect the shot as well as ticking, but my head has never been accused of 100% accuracy. :wink:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Using .62" caliber for an average 20 gauge bore diameter, a strip that is .9738" wide will cover the entire circumference of the bore( .62 x PI[3.1416] divided by 2 .9738".) For sanity, I am cutting strips at 1". :shocked2: :rotf: There is a bit of overlap, but not as much folding at the bottom as you have with the 1.25" wide strip.

I am not expecting to load more than 1 oz. of shot in my 20 gauge fowler,( altho that may change with testing of different shot sizes). until I am satisfied with the patterns I get with the shot sizes, and volumes that I use, I am not going to guess at how long the strip of fabric will have to be. From what I have tried I don't expect the column of shot in my barrel to be more than 1 1/2" long, and will probably be closer to 1", so a 4 inch strip should leave me plenty of excess material to stick out of the muzzle for trimming after the shot is poured into the "cup".

Remember to have a Razor-sharp knife for cutting that patch material! :shocked2: :wink: