Polished bore?

I've read that the cloth patch will lap, or polish the bore smooth after time. Not remove the rifling, but polish the bore so the patch slips over the rifling.
It has been said that the barrel makers would pour vinegar or even pee-pee down bore and leave it set a day or two to etch the bore so the cloth patch would "grab" the rifling better.
I should be so lucky to shoot enough to lap by barrels smooth.
Thoughts?
This thread is asbout as useful as the dimpled balls thread. :bull:

 

[jtmattison]

I've also read that simply shooting PRB...A LOT...will lap the bore. Makes sense to me.
However, how many shots does it take to lap a bore?
Has anyone thought of fire lapping with PRB?
Maybe putting lapping compound on a patch and firing a bunch.
Thoughts?

Huntin

 

[Ohio Joe]

I believe bore lapping is a short cut that deprives the shooter and opportunity to get to know his or her new rifle through "shooting in the barrel"... I also believe it's not a bad idea especially if it's your new hunting rifle and you want it ready for field use come huntin' season and you just don't have the time to, "shoot in the barrel"... Maxi, I have read what you have too. I have also read that some folks peed down their barrel to clean it. My aim isn't that good anymore... :haha:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well, I never pee-peed down my bore, but I have lapped them with JB Paste and a tight fitting patch (I do this to my centerfire rifles & pistols when new, too. Just a few passes to knock down any tooling burrs). Plain old toothpaste and a cloth patch will lap a bore very gently, as will cylinder honing compound or aluminum polishing compound. It's not so much the cotton patch that polishes the bore as it is the dust, grit, fouling and other oddities stuck on the patch.

If you ain't tearing patches when loading or shooting it really isn't necessary. Sometimes a slightly rough bore shoots better than a mirror polished one. My feeling is that there are less nooks and crannies for fouling to adhere and corrosion to get a foothold, and it is easier to load if the patch slides in smoothly.

 

[jtmattison]

I've never lapped a bore.
I prefer to "shoot it in".
As said, it gives you more time to get to know your rifle.

Huntin

 

[jrdavis]

In Chuck Dixion's book he says to wrap a bore brush with steel
wool (0000) and polish the bore with it ..I have done this to a number of barrels it works real well. also i have used the same process to choke a barrel after I coned it. I used the brush with steel wool and super fine grinding compound ran it in all the way marked the end of the rodwhere it met the end of the barrel then pulled the rod out about six inches and put another mark then just polished to the inter mark. ...the gun is easy to load and shoots quite well

 

Personally I lap every new rifle barrel that I receive, it does away with the break-in period.

Many people use different compounds for lapping, I use chrome polish. When starting out you'll need to keep adding your compounds so that your patch remains moist and you must make sure that you lap the barrel evenly. After a minute or so, you'll notice that the patch will start running smoother and it will progressively keep on doing this in till you do not feel any more improvement this might take anywhere from 3 to 10 minutes.

Some barrels without lapping will take anywhere from 100 to 300 PRB shots to break them in, lapping eliminates that process.

In away I suppose Ohio Joe is right, it does take some of the fun out of learning your gun.

Here's a little sidenote, don't be using just any off-the-shelf rubbing compounds, chrome polish or Brasso. I had experimented with a small piece of flat steel with a sheet of extra fine Emory cloth I brightened both sides and measured with a micrometer after that I polish sides of the flat steel till the cloth ran smooth with liquid green rouge chrome polish the thickness of the metal was only reduced[url] by.0002th.in[/url]. I then polish both sides for another five minutes, there was no more reduction in thickness

 

[Claude Mathis]

Many people use different compounds for lapping, I use chrome polish. [snip] Here's a little sidenote, don't be using just any off-the-shelf rubbing compounds, chrome polish or Brasso.

Do you recommend a brand of polish?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not to tread on another man's post - but here is my recommendation. It is an extremely mild abrasive and designed to be introduced into rifle barrels.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1160&title=J-B%7e+NON-EMBEDDING+BORE+CLEANING+COMPOUND

Brownell's or, last I knew, Midsouth Shooter's Supply

Mfr: BROWNELLS


Cuts Through Toughest Bullet Jacket & Powder Fouling
Can't-Run Paste Formulation
Cushioned Abrasive Action Leaves Bores Sparkling
Easily Lifts Caked On, Baked In Moly Residue


The original, time-proven formula developed by Jim Brobst and produced under exclusive license. J-B has been getting burned-on, caked-in powder residue and copper jacket fouling out of gun barrels since the 1960's, and hasn't damaged an inch of rifling yet. Today, J-B once again proves itself a champion by the way it easily cleans the dirtiest, moly-fouled barrels.

A unique combination of ingredients and a one-of-kind, multi-step mixing process give J-B its special characteristics. They work together to cushion the abrasive action; the soft paste liquifies as you use it, then wipes out of the bore easily. The non-embedding feature means there's no abrasive residue left behind which might keep "cutting" after you've finished cleaning.

J-B has been a favorite on gunsmiths'; benches for years, as a "magic" cure for customer guns that "...just won't shoot anymore". These pros know that a good scrubbing with J-B often restores accuracy. Match and varmint shooters put a lot of rounds down range, many of those using moly coated bullets. The large amounts of copper fouling and the burned-in moly can create a cleaning nightmare; J-B makes short work of it. Use J-B with the Lewis Lead Remover to get the last speck of leading out of pistol bores. Shotguns combine lead, powder and plastic fouling to really throw patterns off; J-B cleans it all out quickly and easily.

Here's what a couple of the most respected names in the shooting industry have said about J-B. Jim Carmichel, gun writer and dedicated shooter, "I have used J-B for years and routinely use it even on my very finest benchrest rifles. When no other bore cleaner will get the job done, J-B will." The late Warren Page, a benchrest shooting legend, wrote the praises of J-B when it was first introduced to the shooting public. He said, " J-B is an ultra mild, abrasive oil paste, finer than jewelers'; rouge, which we in the rifle accuracy shenanigan, a few years ago, found was the answer to problems of metal fouling and serious powder fouling that solvents either won't touch, or will cut only by much labor." And, "... it was quickly discovered that such an extremely fine abrasive, used with discretion, would take out caked powder residue and mild metal streaking without ruining the bore."

Try a jar of J-B for yourself; it's 100%-guaranteed to totally delight you with the way it cleans.

SPECS: 2 oz. (57 g) net contents jar. or

 

Quote:
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Many people use different compounds for lapping, I use chrome polish. [snip] Here's a little sidenote, don't be using just any off-the-shelf rubbing compounds, chrome polish or Brasso.


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Do you recommend a brand of polish?

This is what I meant Claude I'm too cheap to go out and buy name brand barrel lapping products but the one thing I did have laying around the house was quite a few different brands of chrome and aluminum polishes and when it comes to lapping your barrel they all would have worked but, here's the kicker when the stuff dries it can be a bear to get back out of your barrel. The greenbar rouge that I use it seems to be the easiest to remove from my barrel and basically no harder than cleanout black powder. When I said don't use just anything, there are some things out there that are too abrasive. My advice to someone else is to either experiment (on up piece of steel other than your barrel) to make sure the compound is not too abrasive or buy the store brand ie. JB or whatever.

Judging whether your barrel is completely broken-in its something that comes with experience. The 54 caliber barrel for my G. P. R. was broken-in by shooting several hundred PRB some 13 years ago. The obvious benefits of having a broken-in barrel are accuracy and easy in cleaning

 

Huntin', Bad Idea. Don't try fire lapping with the patched roundball.
I have JB bore compound and if the barrel needs and little polishing about 50 passes will slick 'em up.
The patch will lap the bore all by itself. Now if your bore is sharp and cuts the patches I'd go the 0000 steel wool route.
Here's a thort! Does the patch really lap the bore or does the powder gases getting past the patch actually errode the bore slowly?

I've read that 3 to 4 thousand shots will lap the bore enough to require the next larger ball size.
I've read on another forum that a fellow has 45 thousand shots through ihis roundball barrel with NO ill effects.
Beats me. I should be so lucky to shoot a thousand rounds.
And NO birddog6 I am NOT going to lap those Colrain barrels. :no:

 

I've read that 3 to 4 thousand shots will lap the bore enough to require the next larger ball size.

The I think that would be determined by whether the barrel consistently fired maximum loads or reduced loads. My 54 caliber GPR has probably had over 4000 PRB shot through it and I have not seen any ill affect on accuracy to be honest I think the more I shoot it the better it shoots. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[roundball]

Same here...I wonder if we sometimes don't overthink our muzzleloading[url] hobby...in[/url] this day and age with modern steels in quality made barrels, I guess I don't understand why we would think it's necessary that we have to "finish the manufacturing process" by assuming we need to "undertake a bore lapping operation", as if the barrel manufacturers work is automatically not good enough.

I don't buy fancy, expensive, custom ML's...only use TC Hawkens with low cost entry level TC and GM round ball barrels, but I can't imagine them being any more accurate than they are right out of the box, and I'm a pretty demanding guy when it comes to quality...I have quite a few, so the trend of fine accuracy is more than just a fluke...I guess everyone's mileage varies

 

[Ohio Joe]

I don't think a person would gain anything trying to lap a T/C barrel. Some years back I contacted the T/C Custom Shop to see about taking the rifling depth down from .005 to .008 in my T/C Hawken. They told me they couldn't do this as the barrel was button rifled and the metal was harden when rifled with this process. That being the case, what good would lapping do if you can't recut the bore metal? What chance would you have polishing away sharp rifling or burs? (As a side note; I thought that if I could get the rifling down to .008, accuracy may improve as perhaps the patch would have a little more room not to get bunched in the shallow .005 depth rifling). It was just a thought? The heating/hardening process can sometimes work against us.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Shine a light down a new T/C barrel and (unless things have changed) you can see little perpendicular steps in the grooves where the cutting bit 'chatters' during the rifling process. It doesn't detract from accuracy, unless a burr was left sticking up, but does hold fouling and make loading tougher.

Is it overthinking and overreacting to worry about them? Sure. But any time I spend with my guns is quality time and I enjoy futzing with them. I wouldn't put off a hunt because I thought I needed to address them, but it is a pleasant way to spend a rainy evening. Some of us take a towel to work in the little white flakes of wax around the lettering and emblem badges on our cars or use a dental pick to remove fouling and grit from gun actions and locks, too. It's not the first time I've been called "anal" in regards to the little stuff.

 

Whether lapping the barrel will improve your accuracy with Thompson Center barrel or green Mountain barrel is something that's up to individual opinion. When I started lapping my new green Mountain barrel I could feel the constant drag of the machining in the barrel and as I went along the resistance lessed, that was the lapping glazing over the the extremely small machine mark from when the barrel was rifled.

Everyone would agree that when the barrel is broke-in, loading PRB becomes easier giving you the opportunity to increase patch size or ball size and quite often that will increase accuracy. Because the inside of your barrel is glazed, black powder residue has less to hold onto, Hance much easier to clean.

 

[roundball]

I agree with your thinking, and and TC's 1:66" round ball barrels do have the deeper .010" grooves

 

[roundball]

Anal? Good gracious, where did you get that from?
Certainly not from my post...I simply made the point that I've never had any performance indications that would make me think I needed to try and do something to improve upon TC or GM's barrel manufacturing process...

 

[Stumpkiller]

No no! Didn't mean to imply that you had. I was critiquing myself. I'm the kind of guy that has to sharpen a new knife on a black surgical Arkanses stone, even if it cuts hair off my arm out of the box. I need to "make it mine" if you know what I mean. I believe T/C makes a fine barrel - centerfire or muzzleloader - but I doubt that they have a 'hand-lapping' table set up for the thousands of barrels that roll off the line at their plant. It's like hanging the fuzzy-dice on the rear-view mirror of a new car. A ceremony more than a necessity.

10 or 20 careful repetitions with a JB covered patch, feeling every inch for 'drags', will also remove any piece of metal that might still be embedded in the barrel before it can cause harm. Heck, it's a tradition with me and I'm sticking to it. ::

 

Don't worry about Stumpkiller, he just has anal on the brain. Obviously he tried my suggestion for Jet glue :curse: :curse: :curse: ::