Ramrod hole correction?

[Vintage Gunsmith]

Maybe you should buy directly from Jim Chambers. The Issic Haines kit I bought years ago had a serious stock issue in that the barrel channel spread and warped away from the swamped barrel. I called Jim and he asked me to return just the stock and shortly afterward i received an entirely new inlet stock and have not had any issues since. Possibly Track buys 2nds and has no problems passing them on.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Do you know of a supplier for ram rod drill?
In this rifle I installed a B profile Rice Swamp barrel. It’s 45 caliber.
That notching the butt plug is bad news. I purchased a nice rifle essentially the same rifle I’m trying my hand at that had that problem. I didn’t realize it was the norm based on the plans. I believe it even instructs to notch the face of the plug after installing the touch hole. I ended up buying a very unreliable rifle that looked great. I ended up counterboring it so not too affect the threads maintaining the same breach plug length. I did not want to do that on this rifle so I moved the barrel back about 5/64s not realizing the sides would loosen due to the natural curve of the swamp barrel. So it is a bit loose but not sloppy loose. So I have two strikes! One more i will burn it. Those will be on me hopefully not!

Been many years ago when I got my ramrod drills, believe I bought them at friendship. You can try Muzzleloader building supply, Jediah star trading, Log cabin shop. I won't mention a certain other .

 

[Joemolf]

I can do that easy it is 3/32 off minimum. Id like to maintain existing channel but I don’t think it will work out when time comes to shape the stock the wood gets pretty thin the entire length reviewing the plans

The picture is a little deceiving but I drilled a 1/16 hole in the center of the stock and then using a #1 pin router slowly cut the hole in the channel. I did not go all the way through. Not like I have anything to do I’m still waiting on the chisels. I also order a 3/8 140 degree 2 flute drill which should be perfect with short strokes and two lengths of drill stock 36 inches long each. I also ordered the same in 5/16 though it will probably never be used. It started walking left about 9 inches forward of the entry hole. The more I read hear the more comfortable I am getting! I do appreciate all of your thoughts and advice. I’m putting it all together and I think i will be okay! Yesterday admitted I deflated. Thank you all!

 

[Joemolf]

Maybe you should buy directly from Jim Chambers. The Issic Haines kit I bought years ago had a serious stock issue in that the barrel channel spread and warped away from the swamped barrel. I called Jim and he asked me to return just the stock and shortly afterward i received an entirely new inlet stock and have not had any issues since. Possibly Track buys 2nds and has no problems passing them on.

If I ever finish what I already have I will! For track to pass stocks along like this is a sin and I have the other that is worse i am beside myself that thats just the way it is tough. The general assembly is slow and tedious but doable for me but to throw a wrench in well thats something you dont plan for. I will definitely post a picture of the other firewood later today. Lol maybe I’ll do an unboxing and create a YouTube account.

 

[Joemolf]

I need a piece of red maple I guess I’ll call track and tell them I need a piece of wood to fix their stock!

 

[Joemolf]

I just checked the other two stocks they also show the same favoritism to the panel side. One is grade 3 the other 4. The one I’m working on is grade 1. Though not as bad i don’t think plugging will be required. So things are not so bad. also neither have the drill coming through the plate. What i saw was burn marks from the milling bit. I recind that complaint. They do a great job packaging them they are wrapped in plastic and then the box is foam filled.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I got one of those TOW kits second hand, it had more flaws than I can mention, the ramrod channel wasn't cut straight and had a bow in the middle. I didn't notice this until I had installed the pipes and tried to insert the ramrod. The ramrod wouldn't go in the fore stock because the bowed channel had it trying to go in at an angle. I relieved a lot of wood to get the ramrod to finally go in.

 

[Joemolf]

I got one of those TOW kits second hand, it had more flaws than I can mention, the ramrod channel wasn't cut straight and had a bow in the middle. I didn't notice this until I had installed the pipes and tried to insert the ramrod. The ramrod wouldn't go in the fore stock because the bowed channel had it trying to go in at an angle. I relieved a lot of wood to get the ramrod to finally go in.

View attachment 225352

Well Eric you did a wonderful job of straightening it out! I think I’m subject to the forestock at the entry tube. I hope mine turns out as well as yours! That looks like a 42 or 44 inch barrel mine is 38. I’m keeping fingers crossed it comes together. I’m heading north for a few weeks won’t get anything done. Very nice
Regards
Joe

 

[Eric Krewson]

The gun is a TOW Issaac Haines kit with a 38" barrel, it is the one that I refer to much too often here as my "pre-carve from hell" rifle.

 

[user 59734]

This is not the end of the world but I’ve run into a problem with a pre inlet Lancaster Issac Haines stock I purchased from TOTW. I’m learning the hard way to inspect things carefully and then put them away if I am not going to get to them. This stock I purchased in 2019 and just started it in April on my 65th birthday LOL! I consider myself to have decent skills and patience. So when I saw Bill Riby’s video on Rumble I got highly motivated. For my first attempt at this I thought I was doing okay. Someone on the forum made a comment that it’s easier to build from a block than a preinlet. I’m finding that may be true but for me hard. I like to take baby steps. Maybe a block build is in my future but not right now. Anyway for those familiar with pre inlet stocks a swamp barrel demands exactness. The lock location you can’t change and the barrel you can’t move aft or you increase the gaps between the barrel and stock due to the taper of the barrel. I had to move the barrel aft to get the touch hole in the correct location otherwise I would have had to notch the breech plug. I want a reliable rifle. Anyway after about 80 hours of work on this im finally up to the point of inletting the ramrod tubes. I cleaned up the ramrod channel with sandpaper. I’m looking at this and I can see that the wood on the right side appears thicker than the left. I was going to take the the stock down to half the diameter of the of the loading rod. But after squaring off the forend I could really see it was a misalignment of the loading rod hole. Good Grief! It’s off to the left by about 3/32 of inch. So this is a problem for me. I think it can be corrected but I am looking for advice on how to correct it. I’m thinking of plugging it with a piece of loading rod that I am going to try and predrill with a #40 drill bit offset by about the same 3/32. The channel is 11 inches long. I can get an aerospace drill bit 12 and 18 inches long. The concern is the bit walking like the 3/8 bit did. Then if successful epoxy the rod in and slowly open it up to 3/8. I think as long as I can get the first 4 or 5 inches straight after that it should be okay and won’t bind the ramrod when replacing it back in place. Track in my opinion has no customer loyalty. I purchased other and are still unwrapped. Of the three two this one and a higher grade one both have ramrod hole issues. The other is worse the drill came through the stock near the breach which leaves me in another mess. I called them and they told me basically that is just the way it is originals had same issues. Well I know drills can walk especially when rushed and not monitored. This is 21 century not the 18th. I would have liked them to say return the stock I haven’t unwrapped and well send you a new one. You would think they inspect what they buy from their vendors. Four hundred dollars for a stock should be better than that. I don’t want a Lancaster with one bolt holding the lock in place so I will attempt to plug that one two after I finish this rifle in the months to come. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Joe

Joe - I guess I may be looking at it from a different perspective. Thinking out loud, I'd first take a look at the possibility of changing the centerline of the entire stock, meaning one side of the stock would be that 3/32" thicker on one side than the other. That would require assessing the thickness of the blank, and determining whether you could shape the stock to the new centerline.

I just finished a Traditions build where the barrel channel was 3/32" off center, leaving one side of the stock thicker than the other. On shaping, I evened up both sides of the stock to the same thickness. There's typically a LOT of extra wood on a blank, and too many builders leave way too much on in a build ("fat stocks"). You can see the off-set on the photos, and the end result that had everything pretty well centered.

Your stock blank may not be thick enough to change the centerline, but it could be a easier alternative than re-drilling the ramrod tube and ramrod channel.

"Disclaimer": this assumes that your barrel channel can remain aligned with the "re-centered" stock, but that's something I couldn't tell from your photos.
Yea, I know - it's probably an off the wall concept.

Andy

 

[Joemolf]

Joe - I guess I may be looking at it from a different perspective. Thinking out loud, I'd first take a look at the possibility of changing the centerline of the entire stock, meaning one side of the stock would be that 3/32" thicker on one side than the other. That would require assessing the thickness of the blank, and determining whether you could shape the stock to the new centerline.

I just finished a Traditions build where the barrel channel was 3/32" off center, leaving one side of the stock thicker than the other. On shaping, I evened up both sides of the stock to the same thickness. There's typically a LOT of extra wood on a blank, and too many builders leave way too much on in a build ("fat stocks"). You can see the off-set on the photos, and the end result that had everything pretty well centered.

Your stock blank may not be thick enough to change the centerline, but it could be a easier alternative than re-drilling the ramrod tube and ramrod channel.

"Disclaimer": this assumes that your barrel channel can remain aligned with the "re-centered" stock, but that's something I couldn't tell from your photos.
Yea, I know - it's probably an off the wall concept.

Andy

View attachment 225474View attachment 225475
View attachment 225476

Andy you did a beautiful job! Mine is probably not as bad as it looks i will study your suggestions! Eric who posted a picture of his had the same problem i do we both used the same stock. You are right about the thickness. I’m hoping to get mine as thin as the profiles shown on the plan. Again I will review your suggestions later I’m on hold until I decide and some of the things I ordered arrive. You did a really nice job!
Thanks
Joe

 

[Joemolf]

The gun is a TOW Issaac Haines kit with a 38" barrel, it is the one that I refer to much too often here as my "pre-carve from hell" rifle.

I have the same stock!

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Do you know of a supplier for ram rod drill?
In this rifle I installed a B profile Rice Swamp barrel. It’s 45 caliber.
That notching the butt plug is bad news. I purchased a nice rifle essentially the same rifle I’m trying my hand at that had that problem. I didn’t realize it was the norm based on the plans. I believe it even instructs to notch the face of the plug after installing the touch hole. I ended up buying a very unreliable rifle that looked great. I ended up counterboring it so not too affect the threads maintaining the same breach plug length. I did not want to do that on this rifle so I moved the barrel back about 5/64s not realizing the sides would loosen due to the natural curve of the swamp barrel. So it is a bit loose but not sloppy loose. So I have two strikes! One more i will burn it. Those will be on me hopefully not!

I got my 48" x 3/8" brad point drill bit from Muzzle loader builders supply in Idaho. I've drilled 4 RR holes with it with no problems. I drill 1/2" to 3/4" between removing the chips.

 

[BadDaditood]

I also got a second hand TOTW Isaac Haines pre-carve in my To Do pile…
I just haven’t felt like being a masochist yet

 

[Eric Krewson]

If they cut the lock inlet, fasten your seatbelt!

My TOW kit lock inlet;

 

[64Springer]

If they cut the lock inlet, fasten your seatbelt!

My TOW kit lock inlet;

View attachment 225826

That's terrible.

And these companies are all too happy to take money for sloppy work.

Was that even fixable?

 

[Eric Krewson]

Yep, I posted this before;

I fixed the sloppy trigger guard inlet after I took this picture. I plugged the hole in the lug. inlettted the trigger guard deeper and re-pinned it.

 

[Joemolf]

Yep, I posted this before;

View attachment 226219

View attachment 226220

I fixed the sloppy trigger guard inlet after I took this picture. I plugged the hole in the lug. inlettted the trigger guard deeper and re-pinned it.

View attachment 226221

Incredible work! Mine was messed up but the lock inlet good grief! You did a great job!
Tuesday the 3/8 maple rod arrived along with a 3/16 radius router. I had purchased a short 2 flute 140 degree drill and two lengths of 3/8 drill blank. But then Bill Raby was kind enough to send me a link to Drill Bits World where I was able to purchase a 48 inch long 3/8 118 degree drill bit! Yes no kidding 48 inch diameter drill bits are out there and available along with other common sizes! I’m still going to try to fabricate the bits both 5/16 and 3/8 today after I get back from doctors appointment. So I glued the dowel in place using titebond interior exterior glue. I shimmed the dowel over to the left side as I previously sanded the slot before realizing how bad the ramrod channel was off. After the glue had dried. I rasped off the top of the dowel flush with the stock. Taking baby steps the entire way because my first real repair attempt. Simple in comparison to fixing a lock plate!

 

[Joemolf]

I used a small router with 3/16 radius bit clean up the side the router was going to index to for recutting the slot. Once I was satisfied I used the router to cut the slot the entire length preset to the original depth less maybe a 1/16. I cleaned up the entryway with a chisel and laid the drill bit in the perfectly cut drive. Oh for any interested in purchasing a bit it cost me $130 with priority shipping! Worth every penny. Using the saw and router i then cut a piece of curly maple 1 by 4 which i cut a shallow slot. I made it so to clamp over the drill to keep the drill from moving in two places. I clamped the first right at where the ramrod enters the fore stock. The second in the middle. I ended up with just a slight amount of drag on the bit preventing it from moving. I had to drill 11!inches into the stock. I marked 1 inch increments from the barrel end to have a gouge to cut clear chips and cut again. It came out perfect; perfectly centered in the stock. No break throughs and the lock and side plate screws were not interfered with. To say I was delighted is an understatement! I know you guys who do this regularly it’s matter of fact but for me it was mountain climbing! I want to thank everyone that chimed in to provide sound advice. I really thought this stock was going to end up in the wood burning stove! Lol maybe still but not from this repair it is sound. I want to thank Phil Collins for encouraging me, Dave, Bill Raby for the drill, Eric, Vet Combat and all others this can be scary stuff for the novice! I attached some pictures some are hard to discern but you can see it worked.

 

[Joemolf]

I still have to take the stock down so the ramrod is set in 3/16 so I’m going to try to assemble the other drill parts I purchased into one piece and then I’ll get back to rasping the stock to the correct ram rod height. And I did find real rasps that don’t skate across the maple! All but the one shown is affordable. I would not recommend it; it’s made in France and is only available in a fine courseness. I would also stay away from Liogier except for fine detail work the 12 # 6 which is supposed to be pretty coarse skated across the stock! It’s going back! The rasps that actually rasped are good old Nicholson rasps! Yes the bench is a mess i have to get a ton of stuff off it!