Rocks are more reliable than caps

[Africa58double]

After storage of Percussion-uprite in safe

I feel a bit of compressed air can blow out chamber and everything.

Snap a few caps and then proceed as normal.

Don’t overdue the oil when putting into storage.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Dedicated flintlock shooters are very conscious of the vagaries of the ancient system. They (we) pay close attention to what we do when shooting.

 

[tenngun]

Well ofcouse flints better then percussion. When you learn flint.
Percussion is easier. And if your careful percussion is more reliable.
A pipe is a joy, a cigarette is easier.
Cigarettes are percussion flints are pipes
It’s Brandy vs rot gut. Lone Star vs craft beer

 

[Rató:rats]

iirc
Percussion ignition was invented by a Scottish doctor and amateur chemist who was a keen waterfowler. He disliked how the flash in the pan and delay gave sitting ducks a chance to get wing spoiling his aim. Probably apocryphal. Has anyone else heard this tale?

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I guess the black Powder Vs. Pyrodex argument has run its course.....like dysentery....

 

[Stykbow]

A well built and maintainened flintlock is certainly more reliable when used by someone that knows how to use them. Percussion did not replace flintlock because it is more reliable. It is because it was cheaper and easier to use. Percussion was seen as better because it was the modern new thing. You also had lots of city people heading out into the wilderness that had never fired a gun before. They could figure out how to work a percussion pretty easily, but just did not know how to make a flintlock reliable. It takes some practice. Then you had the military that had to pay to equip and train thousands of soldiers, many who had never fired a gun.

Look at it this way. A Civil War era camera is far superior to a telephone camera and can do things that a modern photographer will tell you is impossible. But how many people know how to work one of those things today. Technology makes things easier. It does not always make things better.

By that logic a flintlock is more reliable than a cartridge gun because a cartridge makes it easier for anyone to operate. Making something easier for the masses to operate reliably is pretty much how improvements are gauged. I do have a serious question not ML related. What would a civil war era camera do that a phone camera can’t? I’m taking you at your word that it’s true, so I gotta know just to set my mind at ease.

 

[Rató:rats]

Ok found this on infallible wiki

“Reverend Alexander John Forsyth of Belhelvie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland in 1807.[1] The rudimentary percussion system was invented by Forsyth as a solution to the problem that birds would startle when smoke puffed from the powder pan of his flintlock shotgun, giving them sufficient warning to escape the shot.[1] This early percussion lock system operated in a nearly identical fashion to flintlock firearms and used a fulminating primer made of fulminate of mercury, chlorate of potash, sulphur and charcoal, ignited by concussion.[5][6]His invention of a fulminate-primed firing mechanism deprived the birds of their early warning system, both by avoiding the initial puff of smoke from the flintlock powder pan, as well as shortening the interval between the trigger pull and the shot leaving the muzzle. Forsyth patented his "scent bottle" ignition system in 1807.”

 

[david w]

I've had dud RWS caps. I've also had flash in the pan. I trust flint better now that I have learned how to tune lock. Besides, right now, caps are almost unobtanium.

 

[tenngun]

iirc
Percussion ignition was invented by a Scottish doctor and amateur chemist who was a keen waterfowler. He disliked how the flash in the pan and delay gave sitting ducks a chance to get wing spoiling his aim. Probably apocryphal. Has anyone else heard this tale?

Yes true story. He was a parish leader of the local church
First he went with fulminate as a pan primer. Then worked out other methods till he designed ‘scent bottle’ percussion system. I think it was 1807, he had been fiddling with it for about ten years.
Tube lock and pill lock came out real fast. Caps came soon,1818

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

iirc
Percussion ignition was invented by a Scottish doctor and amateur chemist who was a keen waterfowler. He disliked how the flash in the pan and delay gave sitting ducks a chance to get wing spoiling his aim. Probably apocryphal. Has anyone else heard this tale?

Yes

 

[tenngun]

Racing to the typingall same answer

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

By that logic a flintlock is more reliable than a cartridge gun because a cartridge makes it easier for anyone to operate. Making something easier for the masses to operate reliably is pretty much how improvements are gauged. I do have a serious question not ML related. What would a civil war era camera do that a phone camera can’t? I’m taking you at your word that it’s true, so I gotta know just to set my mind at ease.

Civil War Camera, silver nitrate Solution. Cell Phone Camera...not so much.

 

[billraby]

By that logic a flintlock is more reliable than a cartridge gun because a cartridge makes it easier for anyone to operate. Making something easier for the masses to operate reliably is pretty much how improvements are gauged. I do have a serious question not ML related. What would a civil war era camera do that a phone camera can’t? I’m taking you at your word that it’s true, so I gotta know just to set my mind at ease.

Civil War camera used an 8x10 or larger negative. Sometimes much larger. They are capable of extremely high resolution. Photoshop filters often attempt to simulate what those old cameras did with chemistry. The biggest thing is that the old cameras used shift lenses that could do all sorts of neat stuff. Objects in focus at 1 foot away and 500 feet away at the same time. Or put specific parts of a photo out of focus. Take a picture of a tall building and the sides are parallel all the way up. You can take a picture looking STRAIGHT into a mirror and not get the camera in the reflection. All sorts of neat stuff.

 

[FishDFly]

I've had dud RWS caps. I've also had flash in the pan. I trust flint better now that I have learned how to tune lock. Besides, right now, caps are almost unobtanium.

Flints are also hard to find.

 

[SirFrancis]

My take, such as it is:

1. When flintlocks were the only system in use they were plagued by a lot of low quality cheaper locks and a lot of uneducated shooters who needed to shoot (soldiers and amateur hunters both rich and poor) so it’s easy to imagine how in non-expert hands with an inferior product, there was probably a lot of hangfires, flash in the pan, non-sparking, wet or lost prime, and other issues. Whereas nowadays the flintlock shooter is a dedicated enthusiast who is probably using an at least OK lock (the bad ones have all been weeded out of the fairly small market) and knows his business reasonably well, and can easily look up some best practices on the internet.

2. Percussion caps probably seemed notably more reliable and lots more weatherproof than a flintlock when they were introduced. Also way easier to train men on in a military setting. But nowadays they’re the more “entry level” muzzleloader so you get more casual hunter types and not the same percentage of hardcore enthusiasts as with the flintlock. Modern percussion caps can also be suspect since many are made explicitly for reenactment or blanks, and the percussion shooter is more likely to experiment with substitutes. Percussion guns are also more likely to have a patent breech which all things being equal should improve ignition efficiency a bit but doesn’t suffer fools in terms of cleanliness… you get a situation where several factors could well cause a misfire which makes it that much more likely that one, or a combination of them, will indeed do so.

 

[bud in pa]

Flints are also hard to find.

Not if you know where to look. I looked up where to find chert/flint here in NE PA, seems the area around Marshalls Creek has the proper types of stones.

 

[Stykbow]

Civil War camera used an 8x10 or larger negative. Sometimes much larger. They are capable of extremely high resolution. Photoshop filters often attempt to simulate what those old cameras did with chemistry. The biggest thing is that the old cameras used shift lenses that could do all sorts of neat stuff. Objects in focus at 1 foot away and 500 feet away at the same time. Or put specific parts of a photo out of focus. Take a picture of a tall building and the sides are parallel all the way up. You can take a picture looking STRAIGHT into a mirror and not get the camera in the reflection. All sorts of neat stuff.

Unless someone can explain it to me I’m calling BS on taking a photo straight into a mirror without seeing the camera. Any camera photographs whatever it can see in front of it. So if it’s directly in front of the mirror it’s going to show up. I can’t imagine how anything else is possible.

 

[JamesA]

I’m glad so many guys out here shoot percussion
More deer for me and my never-fail flinter

And you will find the guys that shoot unmentionables will thank both percussion cap and flintlock users for using what they have chosen to use. Leaves more for them, specially at 100 yards and beyond. (I no longer hunt) The Civil War might have been over sooner if they had just used flintlocks. This original post sounds like "my daddy can beat up your daddy". Shoot what you enjoy shooting, don't let what other people think or believe as the "gospel" on black powder bother you.

 

[nhmoose]

Flints are also hard to find.

I can find a rock that works in the walk to my mailbox, caps I ain't seen any.

 

[SDSmlf]

Which work better, caps of rocks, when you have no powder, shot or ball?