Rocks are more reliable than caps

[toot]

you will get more shots out of a rock than a cap!! you can take that to the bank. try it!

 

[doubleset]

John Moses Browning once said" They never made a new gun better, only faster."

Faster to load, not as reliable. Guess he was right

Where exactly did he say this? It strikes me as an astonishingly stupid thing to say if it's interpreted as saying that guns and gun designs didn't get better over time and didn't get more reliable. And Browning wasn't stupid.

I can imagine context in which it might make sense. For example, if it means to say that mass production doesn't necessarily result in a better gun than a hand-made one, but that it does result in producing guns faster. THAT makes sense -- as a comment on production speed and not on gun design and function. And certainly not as a comment on "reliability". So can you provide the context for this?

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

"It exists....therefore it is..." Spock

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Where exactly did he say this? It strikes me as an astonishingly stupid thing to say if it's interpreted as saying that guns and gun designs didn't get better over time and didn't get more reliable. And Browning wasn't stupid.

I can imagine context in which it might make sense. For example, if it means to say that mass production doesn't necessarily result in a better gun than a hand-made one, but that it does result in producing guns faster. THAT makes sense -- as a comment on production speed and not on gun design and function. And certainly not as a comment on "reliability". So can you provide the context for this?

Why was to area known as no mans land in France during the First World War so deadly? Just a question.....

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

We all come to this place as it is fun and informative. Keeping in mind that it surrounds the weapons and accoutrements of the technology of yesteryear. I am certain that as time marches on this type of thing even as a hobby in these modern days will eventually become extinct. Laws, Supplies, and the Folks whom make such things are a huge factor. If we are lucky, some of our great, great, greats, will be looking at a photo from that one particular hunt, Flinter or caplock dead deer and all, saying"he was my ( )." I wonder what it was like back then when you were allowed to do that?"Fellas...enjoy it while we have it. We do not last forever and the hobby may very well not last either. As we have seen with such things relegated to the pages of History.

 

[doubleset]

"It exists....therefore it is..." Spock

Would you buy "Flintlocks are the bomb." -- Mahatma Gandhi
???

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Would you buy "Flintlocks are the bomb." -- Mahatma Gandhi
???

Just some humor...in these trying times....

 

[FishDFly]

you will get more shots out of a rock than a cap!! you can take that to the bank. try it!

Forrest Gump comes to mind.

 

[LME]

View attachment 128055

No truer words have ever been spoken~

 

[1BadDart]

I'm in the process (sort of) putting together a LH .40 percussion for 25 yard off hand matches. The barrel came from one vendor, the stock and hardware from another. The stock was supposed to be fully inletted with the exception of the tang and a LH large Siler percussion lock. When it arrived only the barrel was inletted and there was a flintlock instead of percussion, also brass hardware instead of the iron I ordered. In the end I decided to keep the flintlock, sent the stock and hardware back and ordered a large Siler percussion too. This way if caps remain hard to get, I can remove the drum, install a liner and the flintlock and shoot.


I have a Lyman GPR .50 percussion that I put together in the late 80's. For the first 15 years I deer hunted with it a lot, several times in the rain and never had a misfire. All I did was let the cock down on the cap and keep the muzzle pointed down. When using after cleaning I always wiped the barrel with a dry patch and fired a cap on the empty barrel. The only misfires were due to caps with no priming compound, more from CCI than RWS.

Fine rifles are like beautiful women, they are a joy to behold. Living with them may be a different story though!

 

[tenngun]

I wonder if threads like this are why Spence, and many other big contributors I’ve read about from days past are no longer here.

I’m thinking this is all tongue in cheek.
Cap poppers, rocks in the lock. And the earlier snapping cocks, wheel guns and rope burners are all primitive technology. Dirty,short ranged finicky.
If gun were pets a suppository gun is a dog and any front stuffer is a cat
Dogs love you no matter what, cats are always disappointed in you, and just wait for the opportunity to scratch the manure out of you
Inside any ml is a demon that looks at you and the best buck you ever saw and smiles and say ‘ looks like a good time for a misfire’

 

[Khufu]

I started out a very long time ago in the mid 70s. I bought a CVA 45 cal pistol. it went off at best 50% of the time, I later found out the hammer and nipple were misaligned. my next gun was a CVA Kentucky 45 cal cap lock, it was OK, but still failed a lot, probably also a misalignment, but I sold it quickly and bought the same gun only in flint. that maslin lock was cheap, had a small delay but went bang every time as long as I kept the touch hole clean and wiped the frizzen and bottom of the flint. I moved up to the mountain rifle, in flint, with the same results, but now I had a 50. a few years later I saw a flinter in a store closing out and picked up an ultra-hi .69 cal smoothie, oct to round for $50. it was dead reliable, and I hunted with it for a long time, because after I got my deer and or elk, I could take some grouse for camp meat. then I bought a navy arms 3 band Enfield! that rifle was the bomb, I could reach out a LONG ways and it anchored anything I aimed at. after more than a dozen 250 ea tins of musket caps, it has never misfired.
that changed my opinion of percussion, so I purchased a CVA mountain in 50 cal percussion. it was reliable, but still misfired on occasion. since, I have had a lot of smokepoles follow me home and I have built a few and replaced that Maslin flint lock with a RPL from L&R partially because the old lock was starting to show its age, and partially because I found a deep love for L&R locks. now that I am older and wiser (at least I hope) I hunt with a .45 cal Lancaster flinter that I built and target shoot with a .54 cal mountain percussion that I completely went through. the reason I exclusively hunt with Flinters is when its cold, getting the cap on the nipple is a royal pain, a the capper is not easy in low light or cold (old eyes). they are all able to be made reliable, but as with any advancement, you have to trade off something to get something jeeps are nice, but horses will go where no jeep can,
you gotta put gas in a jeep, horses can graze. an advancement usually means the "upgrade' is generally better, but things are given up. in my opinion, using a cap lock for hunting is giving up too much. and to this day, I still carry a smoothie along when hunting, grouse are still tasty!

 

[biliff]

"Alle Fähigkeit ist vergeblich, wenn ein Engel in Ihrem Notenloch uriniert."

 

[Kansas Kid]

I’m thinking this is all tongue in cheek.
Cap poppers, rocks in the lock. And the earlier snapping cocks, wheel guns and rope burners are all primitive technology. Dirty,short ranged finicky.
If gun were pets a suppository gun is a dog and any front stuffer is a cat
Dogs love you no matter what, cats are always disappointed in you, and just wait for the opportunity to scratch the manure out of you
Inside any ml is a demon that looks at you and the best buck you ever saw and smiles and say ‘ looks like a good time for a misfire’

Sounds about right to me. Don’t forget to add that one piece of silver to your build to keep the Demons at bay

 

[david w]

"Alle Fähigkeit ist vergeblich, wenn ein Engel in Ihrem Notenloch uriniert."

Was ist ein Notizloch?

 

[smoothshooter]

I see it time and again. At our monthly shoot yesterday, pretty much every cap lock shooter were having problems getting their rifles to fire, while the flintlock shooters went merrily on our way shooting targets. I've seen the same thing at shoots for years.
Why do people stick with cap locks, when flintlocks are so much more reliable?

I have noticed that too.
I believe it is due to improper cleaning of the flash channel which tends to trap fouling.
It is angled and hard to get to easily.
Percussion guns should be stored muzzle-down.

 

[smoothshooter]

A well built and maintainened flintlock is certainly more reliable when used by someone that knows how to use them. Percussion did not replace flintlock because it is more reliable. It is because it was cheaper and easier to use. Percussion was seen as better because it was the modern new thing. You also had lots of city people heading out into the wilderness that had never fired a gun before. They could figure out how to work a percussion pretty easily, but just did not know how to make a flintlock reliable. It takes some practice. Then you had the military that had to pay to equip and train thousands of soldiers, many who had never fired a gun.

Look at it this way. A Civil War era camera is far superior to a telephone camera and can do things that a modern photographer will tell you is impossible. But how many people know how to work one of those things today. Technology makes things easier. It does not always make things better.

A percussion gun is easier to weatherproof against inclement weather.
And I am a hardcore flintlock shooter. In any kind of weather.