Scottish all-metal pistol

[Moloch]

Well, finally I've got my scottish pistol, and hmm....I am kinda disappointed.

First thing I did after I got it was strip it to clean it. First I thought the barrel is blued or something until I found a pic in the internet of the pistol with a stainless barrel. All oxidation! :shocked2: But no ''real'' rust, just a thick layer of ''patina''. After polishing the heck out of it the barrel looks shiney like new, I am still scrubbing the bore with a brass brush and rust-remover until no more reddish-brwon colored rust remover comes out.

As I assembled it I took a closer look at the lock, the powder pan and the touchhole in the barrel dont align very well. The touchhole is on the very bottom-front of the pan. A tad lower and the hole would be covered by the pan bottom.

Next thing, the frizzen and the cock dont align very well, with a slightly undersized flint installed the stone is off center, and hits at 5/8 to the left.
Doesnt spark at all, but to be honest some rust remover sprayed on the frizzen, I have to remove it first to judge about this.

After that I took a look at the bore with a bore light, and I saw a small hole in the barrel about 2'' from the muzzle right where the ''hook'' is installed which connects the front part of the barrel with the stock; maybe 0.02 deep.

I dont know if its even shootable, I guess I'll get ignition problems of the main load with such a touchhole, maybe the barrels blows where the small hole is or the frizzen saves from that because it does not spark at all.

I think I wasted my money, but its not all about the money, I was really happy as I got it and now all these problems really pull me down.

Dont want to take it to the range, I am afraid the pistol will give me so many problems that other people will laugh at me. :redface:

Anyway, here some pics.

 

[Musketeer]

Ack! :shake: I hate to hear about things like this. The cock could likely be removed and bent to better align the flint, and I don't think the small hole you described would be a big deal, considering it's distance from the breech and the small powder charges used in pistols, but the touchole location is a tougher nut to crack. I have no idea how one would remedy that (if it can even be done). I hope someone can give you some advice on that. Did you buy this from someplace where you could return it? That would be my suggestion. :hmm:

 

[Moloch]

No, I got it from a private collector; and no, I havent seen the pistol before except some pics.He was a pure collector so I dont think he knew that there was something wrong with that gun.

I dont think there any solution for the touchhole, its there and nothing can be done.

Here is a rough draw where the touchhole is located. I cannot take pictures of it because my camera does not show small things like this.




I think the problem I would get with the hole in the barrel is that the patch would get cought there and powder fouling could get in there with undesireable results.

The barrel has 2 proof marks on it, where they blind or what?

What a disappointment, what really hurts is that this pistol witth ignoring these flaws would have been excellent. The brass frame is very nice, the lock internals and the plate is very good als and works perfectly, the gun really points good etc.

I almost want to buy another one without these flaws, I really like those kind fo pistols. I could get one with an all steel frame but I like the brass so much better.

Ah damn, it could have been so nice, I was waiting for it for almost two weeks...

 

[Musketeer]

Yes, I see what you mean about the hole (near the muzzle). I hadn't thought of those things.

As for the touchhole, I wonder if it would be possible to weld it closed and drill another in the proper location? I have no idea if that is possible, but it might be worth looking into.

It is a real shame it turned out like this. That is definitely a beautiful gun.

 

[torn moc]

before you get all bummed out over this...install the corect size flint and clean the frizzen of with alcohol....try to get it sparking...
then take it out and shoot it....it just may still work OK with the touch hole where it is.
It may become a "KEEPER" after all...
it dont look bad in the photos....

 

[Zonie]

Sorry to hear about the defects you've found on your new pistol.

If you can get the frizzen sparking it should be shootable. You will just have to remember to keep the vent clear when you prime the pan.

The little hole sounds like a screw hole that broke thru the wall and possibly the end of the screw is what is showing? If it is, most likely it won't cause a problem when you shoot the pistol.

If the frizzen is sparking you could drill out the existing touch hole and thread it with a #4-40 tap. Then cutting off a short length of a #4-40 screw to screw into the hole would plug it. I would suggest that this plug be loc-tighted in place and filed flush with the outside of the barrel.
You can then drill a 1/16 dia hole thru the wall of the barrel in the correct place.

 

[Moloch]

Finally managed to get a good ''enough pic'' from the touchhole:
As you can see the touchhole is slightly cut from the pans bottom.

[/URL] [/img]

Maybe its possible that the gun will fire and shoot, but I'll never feel good shooting a pistol with a screwed up touchhole, a hole in the barrel and a woefully bad anligned frizzen & cock.

Maybe I got a ''monday''-gun, at dixies there are two rather good reviews and they guys got it to fire. I think I dare to buy another one, new from a dealer where I have the rights to throw it back if somethings wrong with the gun. Thats a good idea, I think Ill do it. Someone wants my pistol for decoration (he is well aware of the flaws!)and would give me a hundred bucks for it. The gun runs for 260 bucks from factory, I think I'll give it a try. Screw the 160 bucks. :hmm:
Deliverey time isnt so bad also, Italy is pretty much next to me and the gun is from Italy, no problems with importing it.

@ Zonie

The hole I mentioned does appearently not come from a screw, there is a hook soldered to the barre, does not look like a screw, or at least its not a screw anymore.
(is soldered a real word? Sounds strange..)
I've bent a long needle so I can check out how deep the hole is, its at least 0.02 deep, enough to be ''outside'' the barrel wall. With enough powder I would fire the hook out of its place I guess.

Thanks for the repairing solution, but I think for the effort I could buy a new one, and I am not so good at these things. :redface:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I thought it was the Scots who left Ireland to go to Scotland

my ancestors left Scotland to go to Ireland when they got on the wrong side of Longshanks and his henchmen by fighting with Wallace they lived near the border.
that's the end of the 'paper record' we have.

 

[Moloch]

So I've got a deal for a murdock all-steel pistol in .58. Looks like it is was made with far better craftsmanship, and it looks like its gonna be a real shooter. Its the one which someone posted pics in this thread.

I can get one for around 240 buck and I think this pistol is worth it.
There are also too much .572 balls and patches lying around without use so I have to buy something in 58 anway. :grin:

This one:

Does anybody know which length the flintstones need to be for this lock? I always make the same mistake getting too short flints for my pistols.

 

[Peter A Meyer]

Moloch,

Know how you feel - recently bought an Indian stone axe head from the US which turned out to be a fake, but a good-looking one, so I'll haft it, add an eagle feather or two and hang it on the wall near the door as a decorative anti-intruder device!

Don't give up on your pistol. The small hole in the barrel near the muzzle could be easily and successfully silver soldered closed then smoothed off internally with fine emery or wet and dry around a dowel.

About the touch-hole - drill a suitably-sized hole in the correct place after having the original welded up. (TIG welding would probably be best.)

OR - you could then enlarge and tap this new correctly positioned hole to take a touch hole liner such as those replacements available for Lyman and other modern flintlocks like the one I put in my LH Deerstalker (an ML 083 from RMC - Rightnour Mfg. Co., PA). Or put in a plug (a grub screw would be suitable) and drill a hole through that. This is more or less what Zonie has already suggested.

Misalignment of cock and frizzen could be fixed as suggested earlier by bending the cock to suit. Use red heat - don't do this cold as you don't know what quality the steel is. Cold-bending may snap it. If the frizzen won't spark, it can be lined with suitably-shaped hard steel soldered on.

You might consider fixing it a lot more trouble than it's worth, but I just hate letting things like that beat me, and besides I love tinkering.

Best of luck with it,

Pete.

 

[Moloch]

Pete,

thanks for the help; I really appreciate it but I wont fix it. I cannot fix it on my own and the gunsmiths in my area dont have a clue about muzzleloaders. Its also too much work for a gun like that, I think I'll get a better one like the one on the picture I posted. :hmm:

 

[Peter A Meyer]

Probably the best idea anyway, as the quality of the steel may not be up to use. Especially if you don't have a workshop or some gunsmithing skills.

 

[temple]

i forgot where i saw it but on one those military channel shows they tested ole military arms against modern body armor. the test that sticks out the most in my mind is them using a bess at 25 yards. no penetration at all but it totally demolished the dummy. so sometimes all it takes is a big slow bullet.

 

[Moloch]

I wonder what my 735 grain conicals out of my .69 springfield would do to a dummy if the Bess is already doing serious damage! :shocked2:

 

[colmoultrie]

Don't shoot this at 25 yards until you try it first @ 5 meters. See where it's hitting there and get consistent with it that close before moving the target back. Otherwise you're just setting yourself up for frustration.

My Scots pistol is a hoot, but the target has to be VERY big to hit anything out of it at any distance whatsoever.

 

[torn moc]

They aint long range target pistols , but ya just love how they look.....

 

[Cmabie]

I bought one of the Black Watch pistols from Navy Arms years ago for about $65.00. It's like the one shown here with the brass frame. It is finished in the white and has a belt hook. I never had have any trouble with it. While not a target pistol one can hit the center of the tatget at 15 yds. as it points well. Mine appears well made.
:thumbsup: