Self defence carry?

[phoenix511]

Get a permit to carry, forget about nostalgia from 1840.

I live in MN, I have a Permit to Carry. I own and shoot BP pistols and Cap\Ball revolvers.

I want, for my personal protection, the most reliable, effective pistol I can acquire. I want a pistol designed and built within the last few years, using ammo loaded in the last few years using today's technology.

Some might think a Cap/Ball revolver is not a firearm under Federal regulation/BATF rules.

Think about this: try to explain to a jury how a Cap/Ball revolver is not a Federally-regulated item, even though it looks a lot like the S&W Model 19 the Prosecutor shows the jury, as you are being tried for carrying a firearm without a permit. Think about your attorney explaining 1850's technology while the Prosecutor explains kinetic energy and stopping power equal to modern ammo. Think about what a jury of citizens might understand ... or not understand.

Or you unholster a Cap/Revolver when someone approaches you from behind and grabs your shoulder. At the trial, the guy says he just tapped your should to walk around you, you displayed a pistol and threatened him. You claim, under Federal law, it is not a firearm. Best of luck!

 

[Louisk]

I was out and about a few years ago and ran into a guy carrying a 58 replica for bear protection. He was a teenager and said he wasn't old enough to legally carry a modern handgun. Not much against a grizzly, but I imagine if you were getting chewed on it would give you a little better chance in a tooth and claw duel between bear and human.

If the situation out there was threatening I would certainly carry a small percussion revolver over nothing. Like was mentioned by Zonie, if given a clear choice between leaving you alone and getting shot, most people would choose not to be shot by even a small gun.

Of course, to state the obvious, whether you're talking about bears or humans, the best thing to do is avoid trouble whenever you can...

 

[Stumpkiller]

I carry a pistol every day for self defense.

NEVER a muzzleloader.

If I had to carry a muzzleloader or nothing? It would depend on the local and state laws. I'd have to go pretty small to be concealable (NY law). Maybe an 1849 Colt clone?

But I won't break a law to have a firearm on me. In NY once you shoot someone it's a pistol/firearm regardless of how it loads. I think I'd rather be dead than spending my life in prison.

 

[freekforge]

My state has a very clear exemption ic35-47-2-19 so i was well within the law. At the time we had a stupidly long waiting period and i wanted to carry as soon as legal so i did. (this is not legal advice)

I know the town i work in has a guy that rides around on a horse with a 1860 in a shoulder holster. pretty odd guy but fun to talk to. I was told he shot a dog with it a few years back.

A friend of mine who is a detective in a larger city was telling me about a guy who used his .50 rifle for home defense must have worked because the bad guy ended up in a box.

Are they the best?...nope. Do they work? well its hard to argue with the civil war.

 

[Grumpa]

I like your attitude. :thumbsup:
And I noticed immediately, that you live in Poland. hint to some other posters: look under the avatar, "Loc: Poland, Europe".
I understand...you are trying to stay within the law.

Loyalist Dave gave you the answer. Get a repro 1860 Army Colt .44 steel framed revolver, and cut the barrel back to where it flows from the graceful curve. Load a stout charge of FFFg gunpowder and a round lead ball. Make sure the percussion caps are a tight fit - if need be, replace the stock nipples with a set of after-market ones that will provide that fit. Some people apply a thin coat of nail polish or lacquer over the caps to weatherproof them?

If the size of the grips are a problem, you can also eliminate the flare at the base of the grip.

The .44 is not much bigger than the .36 Navy as to concealability, and will give you more power. But a .36 will do the job, if you must have the smaller sized gun. I would avoid the pocket type .31 calibers, you might be dead before the guy you shot succumbs.

And get a good knife as a back-up, and learn how to use it...throat, abdomen are good targets, even a slash across the arm can give you the chance to get the hell out of the situation. And that is the goal. If you shoot, don't stand around to see how the other guy is doing...GET AWAY from there. You can notify the authorities when you are in a safe place. YOUR safety is paramount.

Good luck...I wish you well.

Richard/Grumpa

 

[TFoley]

The avatar change to include Poland was made after I asked him to do it.

Edited by FrancisPowers on Sun Jan 21 2018 08:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

And yes, Poland has some odd firearms laws, but no odder than those of the UK, where, if you have what are called in law, 'good reasons' you can have a firearm. I have nineteen, including two handguns of the kind that we are allowed on mainland UK - one is a Ruger Old Army.

With the influx of hundreds of thousands of people into Europe whose culture and ethics are not the same as ours, there has been a groundswell of perceived need for the ordinary citizen of some of the European nations to be able to carry a proper modern firearm [rather than an archaic type] - Austria among the first such nation to do so.

Personally, I'm all for the law-abiding citizen being able to defend himself/herself and family against the goblins of this planet who wish to do them harm. Many of the recent massacres in Europe would not have taken place if a single well-aimed shot had been possible.

tac

 

[rodwha]

From what few BP ballistics gel results posted typically show a ball generating a slightly larger than caliber permanent cavity for a few inches followed by what looks typical for a FMJ with a very long penetration. The ones I've seen have been with a .44 cal and usually around 30 grns.

I'm uncertain as to the powder used and how that would effect the results. If it were something akin to standard Goex and then changing to a more energetic powder one would figure the permanent cavity expansion would be a little larger and a little longer.

One fellow has had a custom conical (110 grns and .385" long) made for his .36 cal that's and using 3F Olde E with a 20 grn charge produced .380 ACP results. In essence this would be what one should expect from a fully loaded Colt Police.

Being that expansion cannot be counted upon I'd opt for some for of wide meplat conical that's short for caliber. Elmer Keith showed this to be very effective and the next best thing to a HP.

Seeing that a ball generally doesn't provide much of a permanent cavity I'd not feel so well protected by a .31 cal. However most people don't want to get shot regardless. It's those few who are determined that would really be of concern.

Using a ball I'd certainly opt for a chopped .44 as we see the military has had fair success with a large caliber non expanding projectile unlike their current 9mm. But a WFN .36 should be fairly effective.

 

[54ball]

We have an old saying here.

" It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Remember the W.I.N. principle....

Whatever
Is
Necessary

 

[Rifleman1776]

It and the Colt 1848-1849 .31 caliber Pocket Revolver would be suitable.

Underpowered? Yes. Possible misfires? Yes but for self defense, these aren't the only things to consider.

Not surprisingly, this topic has unleased a torrent of opinions, many conflicting. But, none are inaccurate, they are just different.
Three times in my life I have had to show a gun for self-defense. Never shot. The presence, in those cases, was sufficient protection for me. I won't deny the blasting, stopping, killing power of the big bangers. And, admittedly, 'back in the day' even a small caliber would put great fear in the heart of the bad guy. Today, anything but an immediately fatal shot often results in recovery because of rapid, modern medical care. Back then, a ball in the gut meant hours, or days, or weeks of indescribable suffering before expiration. That was a frightening prospect that, I'm sure, dissuaded many a bad guy from continuing his attack. So, on one side, the teensy .31 is not sufficient. On the other, it can be an effective discouragement to an attacker. My main consideration when I picked my self-defense arm was conceal-ability. Sir, pick yer own pizzen and carry on. Please let us know your decision. :thumbsup:

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hello Francis,
Welcome to our great forum.
In the classifieds here, someone has a Uberti 1862
Police, pistol in .36 Cal. with a 5 1/2" ( 140 mm ) barrel.
That is a very fine concealable and powerful pistol. It has 5 shots.
Many years ago I was mugged and stabbed by five heros?, a little NAA .22 five shot 1 1/2" barrel saved my life.
One shot to the groin of one fine fellow, two others to the nee cap took all the fight out of them. I don't speak of this with pride, but only to say, anything is better than nothing.
Fred

 

[robinsroost]

Given FrancisPowers choices, I would opt for a 36 caliber Navy, loaded with 148 grain HBWC's over 20 grains of 3fg. I am a retired LEO and I have seen what that flat nosed bullet can do. Keep yer powder dry........robin :hmm:

 

[rodwha]

With the size and weight being nearly equal I'd prefer a .44 cal. No real advantage to a .36 unless a Colt Police is considered.

 

[M. De Land]

I'd think a Sheriffs model with out the loading lever would be a decent carry revolver.
The other advantage to a black powder gun fired indoors is you can hide in the smoke for a day and a half! :rotf:
I just finished a concealed carry course here in Alaska and both the lawyer and Ex LEO instructor said to never brandish a weapon. Leave it alone unless you have to use it.
Even reaching back and not drawing from the holster is considered brandishing with a lethal weapon and considered assault.
Even if you stop the attack, if the bad guy calls police an accuses you of assault and has witnessed to back him up(his cohorts), your the one going to jail.

 

[m-g willy]

One shot to the groin of one fine fellow, two others to the nee cap took all the fight out of them. Fred

Why would you shoot someone in the knee cap?
The only reason to shoot someone in the knees cap is if you are trying to get info from them.

 

[AZbpBurner]

One shot to the groin of one fine fellow, two others to the nee cap took all the fight out of them. Fred

Why would you shoot someone in the knee cap?
The only reason to shoot someone in the knees cap is if you are trying to get info from them.

It's obvious that the info he wanted from them was of the "what will it take to make you stop stabbing me" nature. In a situation, you shoot whatever presents itself.

Kneecap shots hurt like a sumbit¢h & will make pretty much anyone stop what they're doing.

 

[RedFeather]

Something you guys ought to consider. With many "self defense experts" not even recommending handloads due to potential "legal exposure", I can't see a sawed off "angel" or even a repro "belly gun" any better choice. That's playing into a lawyer's hands, like you're looking for trouble. The best bet is to avoid trouble in the first place. I mean, if your situation is so severe that you have to resort to this kind of hardware, maybe it's time for a change of scenery? Lot of bold talk here but it's no longer the Wild West. Just sayin'.

 

[azmntman]

I mean, if your situation is so severe that you have to resort to this kind of hardware, maybe it's time for a change of scenery?

Lot of bold talk here but it's no longer the Wild West. Just sayin'.[/quote]

Unless ya have to pee, BAD, and get off on the wrong dirt road on the reservation. Then it can be a real version of a B-grade western. Been there, done that. No carry but a faster vehicle and was not sacraficed :grin: (now carry anytime I leave the pavement on the res :surrender: )

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[francispowers]

Even reaching back and not drawing from the holster is considered brandishing with a lethal weapon and considered assault.


Even if you stop the attack, if the bad guy calls police an accuses you of assault and has witnessed to back him up(his cohorts), your the one going to jail.

That simply depends on where you live. We have a totally different law and basically the "use of a firearm" is pulling it from the holster, not reaching for it.

Never heard of any judge believing a few guys with knives usually having a previous criminal record claiming that they, in a group, were robbed by a single man carrying a concealed gun with no criminal record.



Thanks for so many replies everyone! I'll defenitely go for .44 cal, just still unsure about the model.

 

[TFoley]

So will a shot through the fly zip.

tac

 

[rodwha]

Of the reproductions available I'd opt for an Uberti Remington NMA with a 5.5" barrel and see how that works for your situation. It can be cut back later. But then Pietta makes a ready to go Colt Avenging Angel type pistol.

However it seems all too often the Colt models have spent cap binding issues to overcome. Either the hammer pulls the spent cap from the nipple causing an issue or a cap that fell off afterward got dropped and stuck in the action. There are fixes for these if it happens.