Shooting way low!

[Rawhide67]

Another thought, and I don't know the answer, but.....
Before calling Pedersoli and trying to order a new barrel, or trying to bend the existing one, would it be possible to have Mr Hoyt or Mr Rayl bore this thing out and reline back to 45? Seems like they could ream out the off center bore if that is the issue. Or, they could at least tell him if the barrel is bent. I'd rather have a pro bending my barrel than me. And cheaper than a new barrel. Again, just a thought.

 

[RUDY MR]

Try putting 70 gr charge what they say in book

 

[Dave Marsh]

Personally, before I did anything else I would have someone else shoot it. A friend of mine got a used flintlock GPR and we went out to sight it in. He could not hit the paper with it, and we determined it was shooting at least a foot low. Pretty much left to right was fine. So, I said let me try that. First shot right in the bullseye followed by 2 more in the bull. I showed him how I was holding and aiming, and he tried. Don't know if he was flinching or just positioning wrong but he did much better after that. He now shoots that gun very well and we did nothing to the gun. Problem solved.

 

[Jake2454]

dont bend anything! Thats totally manure and never should be done when the rifle has ADJUSTABLE sights.

If its shooting low, raise the rear sight higher. To me, it looks like the sight is on backward, but without more pics, i can not tell for sure. BUT, I do know, if its shooting low..... You simply raise that adjustable rear sight....

i agree the sight looks to be on backwards

 

[doubleset]

Personally, before I did anything else I would have someone else shoot it. A friend of mine got a used flintlock GPR and ... Don't know if he was flinching or just positioning wrong but he did much better after that. He now shoots that gun very well and we did nothing to the gun. Problem solved.

That sort of question could also be resolved simply by shooting it off a bag from a bench. I'll grant you, it is often difficult for someone to tell that they're pulling/pushing/dropping in one direction or another. My wife has a terrible tendency to shoot about 10" low at 50 yds with her scoped (!) AR-15. Just anticipating the shot and leaning into it at the last instant. A barrel-heavy gun can exacerbate any such tendency.

 

[waksupi]

Load it up to around 65 gr. 3FFF. That should be close to the most accurate load, and will bring up point of aim. You are shooting a pistol appropriate load at the time. 25 grains isn't even a starting load in a 45 rifle.

 

[waksupi]

I have to say that I'm really pretty puzzled at the speed with which people proceed to "I need to bend the barrel". If that's really true, it would seem to imply that a LOT of BP barrels either aren't straight or aren't bored correctly. And that's disturbing -- isn't it?

No kidding. I've inspected well over a thousand barrels for gun companies, and less than 1% are bent or bad in any way.

 

[Nuthatch]

Just to rule out the simple stuff, are you absolutely certain that you're not pushing the barrel down at the shot? Low and right both happen with anticipation of the shot. A lead sled of some kind is the best way to reduce it but it's still not fool-proof. I'm the fool that has proven it's not 100% perfect many times.

 

[SPQR70AD]

after 4 pages the OP looks like a drive by. never came back or showed the front site in the post

 

[erhunter]

I had a Thompson Center Hawken in the early 80's and my front sight was a the way to the left and my rear sight was all the way to the right and it was still off horizontally! Took it to Dixon's and he said it was "barrel run out" and Thompson at that time were producing a lot of them. When you put a straight edge along the barrel the muzzle was 1/4 inch away from the straight edge! Sent it back to Thompson.

 

[Okie Hog]

after 4 pages the OP looks like a drive by. never came back or showed the front site in the post

Malarky. Drive by my butt. The OP made a total of ten posts on this thread. He stated that the front sight is about 1/8" inch tall.

Some posters here have shown an inability to read and comprehend.

 

[Steve Martin]

Barrel bending is most often used (and is most effective) primarily on smoothbores. I would say it's pretty rare these days with octagon rifled barrels so don't run right out and try bending anything yet! As others have already said the charge you said you are using is way low for the typical .45 caliber rifled barrel muzzleloader. That's about all we can tell you without seeing pics of your front and rear sights. The pic you provided of the rear sight has got me totally stumped - never seen anything quite like that on a muzzleloader before!

 

[Nor'Easter]

* Some quick math FWIW: If the front and rear sights are 30" apart and the rear sight is 1" higher than front sight, and the bore is centered in the barrel, at 25yds (75') the axis of the bore is pointing to a point 30" above the point of aim. With a concentric bore the difference in sight heights should be a few thousandths of an inch @ 25yds (with a good bore seal, which he has as his patches prove).
* If doubling the powder charge from 20gr to 40gr raised the POI 1", and the OP stated that with normal height sights it's shooting 18" low ...... 18 x 20 = 360gr charge and he'll be right on target! This is sarcastic, obviously because it's not linear, but he's not 4"-5" low, he's 18" low.

 

[Frontier's]

guys.. do you think its wise to tell an inexperienced shooter to bend their barrel?

 

[doubleset]

guys.. do you think its wise to tell an inexperienced shooter to bend their barrel?

Um ... too late for that. But he claims experience.

 

[Nor'Easter]

All we can do is run through the various options / possible scenarios with the OP, and then they have to decide for themselves. We all started somewhere with no experience. And some live where the only available mentors are youtube and forums like this. I've only been here a couple of months, but it seems the more experienced here have voiced that this hobby is like carpentry - it's not that you won't make mistakes, it's how you take care of them. I've had to buy / make a few new parts over the years.

 

[Bobby44]

Personally, before I did anything else I would have someone else shoot it. A friend of mine got a used flintlock GPR and we went out to sight it in. He could not hit the paper with it, and we determined it was shooting at least a foot low. Pretty much left to right was fine. So, I said let me try that. First shot right in the bullseye followed by 2 more in the bull. I showed him how I was holding and aiming, and he tried. Don't know if he was flinching or just positioning wrong but he did much better after that. He now shoots that gun very well and we did nothing to the gun. Problem solved.

Sometimes the lock time is not what you are used to and it will throw you off too. I don't think that is the issue here but I agree -- take a buddy to the range time.

 

[Okie Hog]

Video no longer exists

 

[Grenadier1758]

The rifle is new to me and it came with that tall rear sight and now I know why. One of the first things I did was install a set of traditional sights before I even shot it and it hit 1.5' low. It's on target now with that huge rear sight maxed out on height and the front filed all the way down. I don't want to live with that if I don't have to.

As we can see, the rifle came with the ridiculous rear sight. I don't think he did anything wrong in his practice. He accurately described the problem with his rifle, and he exhausted the usual changes in powder charge, shooting from a rest and all the usual methods to get a group hitting to point of aim. There seems to be a real problem with the bore that just isn't going to be fixed by changing the powder charge, ball size, or patch thickness.

It is a good looking rifle and he didn't buy it to be a wall hanger.

Bending the barrel or replacing it is where we will have to go. I don't think Bobby Hoyt can straighten this barrel.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Video no longer exists

Probably the bore is straight. It's just off center and the barrel needs to be bent, not straightened. I wonder where @woodsnwater can find that calibrated log?