Sight problems

[blowinsmoke]

Hey guys. Ive encountered another problem that i need some help on. I few weeks ago my front sight broke off and i replaced it with a sight from a TC. It stuck out past the barrel about 1/8 inch, but it worked and i just needed it to get by for the season. Well when i was cleaning my gun yesterday, my dog ran by and knocked it over, breaking the new sight off yet again. I went to the gun shop up the road and he put a new sight on for me. I went to the range today to shoot and make any adjustments needed. At 50 yds the bullet was hitting about 12 inches high. I figured it would be higher than usual being that the new sight is lower than my old one but i didnt think it would be that high. I moved my rear sight down as far as it goes and im still 6 inches high. Does anyone know where i can get a new set of sights for my gun? Its a CVA Pa whitetail with an octagon barrel. The front sight as a slot for the dovetail mount and also has the tapped hold for a screw. The rear sight just has a screw i believe. If someone can tell me how to post a picture, ill take one of the barrel and post it. Thanks a lot guys... Tim

 

[Zonie]

I would suggest that you take the gun back to the gunsmith and tell him he screwed up.

Well, OK, maybe you should just suggest that he installed the wrong sight and that the one he used is way too short.

He should be willing to fix his mistake for free or for a couple of bucks for the cost of the new sight he should have installed to begin with.

You might suggest that he measure the height of the rear sight from the barrel flat with the sight adjusted up about 1/2 the total amount it can move to. Then subtract about 1/16 of an inch and use a sight that will give that height from the barrel flat.
That should get you very close to the sight that you need.

 

[blowinsmoke]

Thank you. When he measures the rear sight, should he measure just to the top of the whole sight or to the indent that i would align with the front sight?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Measure the thickness of the barrel at the rear sight and divide by two. Then add the height of the rear sight at the medium adjustment to that dimension. Then measure the barrel at the front sight and divide by two. Your front sight should be the height requred to get you to the 1/2 barrel thickness + rear sight height figure. This takes it from the centerline of the bore and works for parallel, tapared, swamped or any other barrel shape.

Note that this does not account for the depth of the dovetail. As long as you are consistant and either add that depth or not when selecting the front sight you should be fine. And remember: too tall a front sight is easy to fix with a file. Too short requires a different sight blade.

 

[blowinsmoke]

I put on a new front sight that fits nice and tightly into the dovetail. Will this work? I wasnt real sure what you were trying to tell me to measure there. Heres what i came up with. My barrel is the same thickness at the front sight as it is at the rear sight. From the bottom of the barrel to the top of the front sight is exactly 1.5 inches. From the bottom of the barrel to the top of the rear sight at the medium position is 1 23/32..

 

[Deadeye]

I believe you will still be shooting too high
unless you have a lot of adjustment in your rear sight. I would suggest you read Zonies answer again and follow his simple advice.
Deadeye

 

[Birddog6]

Do you have the old broken sight & the piece that broke off ? If that sight worked, take it with you back to the gunsmith & ask him to put on on the Same Height as the old one was. It sounds like the new sight was considerably shorter than the new one. :hmm:

 

[Zonie]

"...From the bottom of the barrel to the top of the front sight is exactly 1.5 inches. From the bottom of the barrel to the top of the rear sight at the medium position is 1 23/32.. "
--------
23/32 of an inch is equal to 0.7188 so putting this into decimal form, from the bottom of the barrel the top of the front sight is 1.500 and from the bottom of the barrel the top of the rear sight is 1.719?

That makes the rear sight .218 higher than the front sight. No wonder the gun is shooting way high.

If the height of the rear sight is at 1.719 from the bottom of the barrel, then the top of the front sight should be about 1.660 or 1 21/32 of an inch from the bottom of the barrel.

 

[blowinsmoke]

Oh okay.. It seems hard to find a sight that is much higher than the one i have on it now. Being that i can no longer get the original sights for the gun, i think im going to have to get a lower rear sight. Instead of mixing and matching like im trying to do, do you think i should just buy a set of sights, front and rear? The only problem i have with that is, i cant find a set that is designed solely for my gun. Is the dovetail for the front sight a standard size? Or do different manufacuters have a different size dovetail? The is driving me nuts. What i really need to do is just update my gun, being that its so hard to get parts for, but until i have the money saved to buy a nice one, i need this to get by. Its a great shooting gun with very tight groups, i just need to get something figured out with my sights. Thank you. Merry Christmas!!

 

[ohio ramrod]

Most american made guns have 3/8 dovetails (.375)nominal ) ,most european guns have 9 mm dovetails.(approximately .350 nominal )

 

[Zonie]

As I sit here looking at the numbers something doesn't seem at all right.

You didn't say what size it is across the octagon flats on your barrel is and knowing that would help.

As it stands right now if the measurement from the bottom of your barrel to the top of the rear sight blade is 1 23/32, or 1.719 inches, and if your barrels octagon was 1 inch across the flats the top of the rear sight would be almost 3/4 of an inch above the top flat.

If the barrel is a 15/16 inch octagon (as many are) the top of the rear sight would be almost 1/32 over 3/4 inches high above the top flat.

No offense but I've seen some pretty tall and rather ugly adjustable rear sights on some muzzleloaders but 3/4 of an inch boarders on the ridiculous.

I say this because my .54 Caliber TC Hawken has a pretty high front sight on it and it only sticks up .395 above the top flat on the barrel.

Looking at the sights offered by TOTW a few years ago they show a number of them but the tallest one is .411 above the base.

That said, if you could measure from the top barrel flat to the top flat surface (with the V or U notch in it) with the rear sight adjusted all the way down as far as it will go and tell us what the dimension is maybe we can start again.

TOTW sells a Lyman sized sight with a .360 metric dovetail that is about .400 tall that should be about right.
A .400 tall front sight blade should work with a rear sight that is about 1/2 inch from the top flat of the barrel to the top surface of the rear sight.

 

[blowinsmoke]

Can you tell me how to post a pic on here? Im sorry for all of this confusion but i appreciate you sticking with me and helping me get this straightened out. Ill take a few more measurements tomorrow and hopefully post a few pics too. Thank you.

 

[blowinsmoke]

Here is a picture of the gun and the pictures of my sights.. I know its nothing special at all. Especially compared to some of the beautys ive seen on here! But it was my first flintlock and i shoot it well. So about the sights, what do you think? Is there a set of sights i can get to replace these? Thanks for the advice on posting pics!

 

[Billnpatti]

From the pictures, that is not the original rear sight. That is an after market sight. You can get original T/C sights for your rifle. With a rear sight as tall as that, the front sight must have looked like a shark fin sticking up on the muzzle of your gun.

In fact, if it were me, I'd remove that rear sight and the front sight and replace them both with fixed sights being sure that the front sight is taller than you need. Then work up a load that is accurate and of sufficient velocity to give you the knock down power that you need. Lastly, I'd get a file and start shooting and filing until I was putting my shots in the bull at 75 yards. Since no responsible hunter using a muzzleloader with open sights will try to shoot a deer past 100 yards, you will be set for hunting and have no further worry about your sights. :thumbsup:

These are just the ramblings of an old fart who has been building and shooting muzzleloaders for over 40 years. The advice is free and probably over priced at that. :haha:

 

[blowinsmoke]

Do you know which sights i need to order? Ive looked for sights on a few different websites but i dont know which ones will fit. I think i agree with you about taking both off and getting a set, i just dont know what to order. Is that dovetail a standard size? Thank you.

 

[blowinsmoke]

In the sideview pic of my rear sight, you can see that there is a small cut out underneath it. Does anyone know what this is for? Does it mean that new sight i get has to have something on the bottom to fill that? Any ideas or sight recomendations would be GREATLY appreciated.. Thanks guys. Happy holidays!

 

[Zonie]

The groove under the sight appears to be a dovetail.
Very likely, the screw that holds your existing sight in place is screwed into a mating dovetailed piece.

I know you don't want to disassemble your gun but if you take out the screw in your rear sight base and remove it you hopefully will end up with a little dovetail piece that fits that groove.
If you do have this dovetail piece, take it to your local Hardware store or Auto Parts store amd ask them to measure it across the points of the dovetail. Remember this value.

If you don't have a maiting dovetail piece in that groove, remove the barrel from your gun and take the barrel (without the rear sight on it) to one of the stores and see if they can measure the dovetail from its outermost point to points.

Track of the Wolf shows two sights that might work with your gun. The catch is, each one seems to be made for a different metric sized dovetail.
They show a #RS-PM-1 which is an adjustable buckhorn sight built with a .348 wide dovetail
Their catalog says it is made for the Lyman Great Plains Rifle in Italy.

They also show a #RS-16-AML "adjustable metric" that is made with a .360 wide metric dovetail.
They say this sight will fit "most" CVA, Traditions, Euroarms, InvestArm, Pedersoli...and many other European imports.

Either of these sights would be very close to working with your new front sight.

Check out the pictures and prices in this link:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartList.aspx?catID=14&subID=167&styleID=769

It would be a good idea for you to call Track of the Wolf at 763-633-2500. Tell them what you have and ask them if they think their sights will work. If they say yes then order one of them.
If it doesn't fit you can always call them and tell them about it. I'm sure they will allow you to return it.

 

[blowinsmoke]

Thank you. I'll do that tomorrow. Should i do the same for the front sight? Or is there just a front sight that matches whichever rear sight fits my gun?

 

[Birddog6]

Seems to me the thing to do is call the place that sells all the CVA rifles. Can't thing of the name right now...... But anyway, if anyone would know what sights fit the rifle, they would.
Someone throw me a bone here.......... Who is the place that has all the locks & CVA parts mentioned allot on here ?Two places have almost or the same name ? The one up north or midwest is the one ya want, not the one in Fl.

Also might try Numrich Gun Parts, as they list allot of CVA parts.

 

[Zonie]

Deer Creek is the name of the company.

The only reason I didn't suggest them is they bought up all of the old CVA barrels, locks, sights etc but I'm not sure they would work on one of these "latest" CVA's.

They would be worth calling but I don't have their phone number and they are not "on line" with a computer address.

Maybe someone else will help out here?