Smooth bore accuracy?

[Eric Krewson]

Sight #1, too flat on top and doesn't slope backwards so there is a lot of glare from the top and back, the notch is too small. Looks nice but doesn't do the job. The rear sight on all guns is a blur when viewed by my 68 year old eyes, any reflective glare compounds the problem.



Sight #2, a rush job so it is not as finished. Slants backward, top is narrow, no glare and cut at a 45 degree angle. The notch is wide and easy to find the front sight in. I will work more on the fit and finish of this sight after deer season or make another taking my time.



This what I started with.

 

[fourdogs]

Hi From NZ,
the way to get good accuracy from any smooth bore is to 'knurl' your balls between two coarse rasps to fluff up the lead. Put one rasp in a vice(i use a stiff pc leather to provide a kind of 'fence'at the jaws). Put ball on the rasp and use the other rasp on top and roll the ball around with it. Use no patch.This method causes the ball to be a tight fit in the bore and stops it chattering as it goes out as a result they shoot well. Have seen a Brown Bess shoot a clover leaf at 25yrds with these balls.They shoot well in my 12g Fowler too. Enjoy!
Stu.
Auckland NZ

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'd rather use a patch (I use paper) and avoid lead fouling.

There's a fellow lives on the other side of town who shoots a Charleville musket in the Miquelet event and he does cloverleafs at 70 meters! He used to put 10 in 6" at that distance - no sights - all day. He set the world record in Barcelona in 1992. Using rolled paper cartridges.

25 yards is a gimmie. I used to shoot PPC with a 6" pistol and could keep six in 1" (Weaver Stance) on a good day. How is it at 50 yards?

Knurling works if you don't want to take the time to match a cloth or paper patch. ihe "golfball" theory didn't prove out in a ball moving at firearm speeds because the turbulence layer is outside the raised bumps and a smoothbore doesn't spin or put english on it like a club does.

But if it's working for you keep at it. :hatsoff:

 

[Eric Krewson]

Well, I have to retract my statement on how accurate my smoothie is. I shot my fowler with the new rear sight yesterday. I could see the sight really well but my fowler was spraying balls all over the place. I had two fliers out of 10 shots, my normal 3" group opened to 6", not counting the fliers.

Dang, just when I thought I had this smoothbore stuff figured out........

 

[Brokennock]

Hey Eric, just a quick thought, I reread your post wherein you described your load and got good groups but couldn't load more than twice without wiping. Your most recent post your groups have opened (lost consistency).
Have you tried a lower charge of finer powder? Say, 95 to 100 of 2f or, dare I suggest it, 90 to 95 grains of 3f? Reason I mention it is that when experimenting with loads for my 1st smoothie I could get good groups and patterns with 2f on any given day but had trouble with fowling and might not get the same results another day. When I worked with 3f until I matched or beat the best results with coarser powder I had a lot less fowling issues and greater consistency between range sessions.
I wonder if it's possible that the coarser powder allows for greater inconsistency when loading by volume due to air between individual flake of powder.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well, I have to retract my statement on how accurate my smoothie is. I shot my fowler with the new rear sight yesterday. I could see the sight really well but my fowler was spraying balls all over the place. I had two fliers out of 10 shots, my normal 3" group opened to 6", not counting the fliers.

Dang, just when I thought I had this smoothbore stuff figured out........

It's like with wimmin - when you think you have The Rules figured out they change them.

My Bess was that way. I'd get past 50 yards and I swear the balls would jink and swerve like knuckle balls. My Brooks reaches to 60 yards, but I don't trust it past that.

What lube are you using, Eric? I have found less to be best in my smoothies. Pressure? Tightness? Not sure why but too slick is not good.

Earlier I introduced pointing vs. aiming. I do better pointing if there is no rear sight - which is the same method I use for bowhunting. And I shoot a hunting bow daily. No sights, just focus on the target. On a specific spot on the target, on a tiny point within the specific spot on the target. Right eye does windage and left eye does elevation - without me thinking about it.

With a shotgun when I grouse hunt I concentrate on the beak. Usually can't see it - but I know where it ought to be and with enough leade to get the shot and the beak to intersect. On a deer I concentrate for an imaginary bead resting on top of the heart. Even with sights you must pick a spot, without sights it's even more critical.

It's true - you can't be as accurate without sights. But you can be faster and accurate enough. The goal is 10" in diameter (heart/lungs). But you don't aim at a 10" circle. You aim for the center of the 10" circle.

I have an old book by Jack O'Connor (famous as a rifle shot) and he devotes half the book to shotgun shooting. And he states that a good rifleman is not necessarily a good shotgunner and vice versa. It's a different skill set.

Shotgunning (even if only one ball is launched) is like throwing a dart or hammering a nail. Muscle training by repetition.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I use denim and mink oil(lots) which is a pretty tight fit. I will try less lube. I shot a few loads with Hoppes #9 and could keep loading easily without wiping. My first shot with the Hoppes was a flier, the rest were good.

After I got frustrated I started picking up patches and reshooting them, they looked like they had never been shot except for a loading ring around them. They actually shot well.

 

[Artificer]

Well, I have to retract my statement on how accurate my smoothie is. I shot my fowler with the new rear sight yesterday. I could see the sight really well but my fowler was spraying balls all over the place. I had two fliers out of 10 shots, my normal 3" group opened to 6", not counting the fliers.

Dang, just when I thought I had this smoothbore stuff figured out........

Eric,

I am not trying to make excuses for why your gun opened up, but when shooting 10 shots, "Shooter Error" can sneak up and get you at times.

Gus

 

[PaulN/KS]

I have a 62cal fowler with a 42" barrel. I am enjoying the heck out of it this year. Got a jake in the Spring and just last Thursday shot a doe with a round ball. The gun works well with 60gr of 3f and a .010 lubed patch. Loads easy and, if I do my part, shoots pretty well center to 50 yards.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I shoot off sandbags and wear a 1" Past recoil pad. The recoil of my fowler with 110 gr of powder is pretty brutal, with the pad I don't feel it at all.

I agree with the fatigue part, my first three shots or so are my best.

 

[Artificer]

I shoot off sandbags and wear a 1" Past recoil pad. The recoil of my fowler with 110 gr of powder is pretty brutal, with the pad I don't feel it at all.

I agree with the fatigue part, my first three shots or so are my best.

A HUGE :thumbsup: on using a PAST Recoil Pad when testing heavy recoiling and even some regular recoiling guns. A VERY good friend of mine used one regularly under his Federal Uniform when he shot NSSA in the 80's. However, I have to sheepishly admit I did not use one until some other good friends strapped one on me while I was test firing some guns in the early 90's. What a big difference that made in the felt recoil!!

The only thing negative about a PAST recoil pad is one sometimes to often has to adjust his aim when not using the PAST pad to shoot in other positions. But as long as one keeps that in mind, it is not a big thing at all.

Gus

 

[Trot]

I think I finally have my Mike Brooks Carolina gun sorted out. With a .570 round ball, a Ballistol lubed pillow ticking patch and 60 grains of fffg it will hold a 2 1/2 inch group at fifty yards. This is standing bracing against a tree. I haven't shot past fifty yards yet but will certainly give it a try.

 

[hanshi]

There is a rear sight on my smoothbore specifically so I don't have to change shooting technique when switching between it and the rifle. With a thin, .010", patch I've shot 10 shot groups at 50 yards with 8 shots once going into 2.5". But shot 9 and 10 (not sure exactly which ones, however) or some two of them were flyers. When I shoot "bare ball" with a larger WW, .606" ball, I can usually count on 50 yard groups to stay on a dinner plate and often a dessert plate. This level of accuracy works for me. I'd rather have a uniform so-so level of accuracy than a Jekyll and Hyde sometimes super accurate load. I do keep experimenting, though.

 

[ptaska]

Stumpkiller, I always come away with something valuable reading your posts. Thank you.

I have been shooting my 20 ga. smoothie with a shotgun load column: Powder, over-powder card, crisco-soaked wad, bare ball (sprue up), & over-shot card. A friend at the range today suggested frosting the balls, so I'll try that in a couple weeks.

The challenge for me (I've only been "smooth" for 6 months) is to do the same thing twice: Load>prime>point+squeeze>follow-through. When I do, the steel falls down with the most satisfying "clank." The misses seem always to point to me because of something I did (or didn't) do. My fowler will do whatever I instruct it to do, everytime.

Thank you, gents. Good stuff.

 

[Joe B.]

20 ga. 44" octagon to round swamped Colerain barrel on my English fowler. Mics .625". The barrel started out with a turkey choke. Absolutely no way to get any consistency with a ball so I had the choke bored out.
Turtle front sight, no rear. I've tried every combo in the books. .595 patched round ball on top of 75 gr. 2f and I can get 3" 5 shot groups off hand if I'm on.

 

[smoothshooter]

At what range?

 

[Joe B.]

Oops, 25 yds. I can hit the large gong at 100yds, but after 25, groups start to open up. I do have an awesome 5 shot 50yd target off the bench from several years ago, but that was a one of a kind for me.
Truth be told, haven't shot the fowler much lately as our monthly matches don't include smooth bore specific, but I dragged it out lately just for fun, and that they are.

 

[nwtradegun]

my 12 ga , 72 cal. trade musket is on at 50 yards. my eye site limits me to that range. 4 in groups from the bench. 715 rd ball, 10 th. patch, and 85 grains swiss 3 f

 

[hanshi]

It does take some work, alright. Generally, my gun shoots bare ball loads into about a saucer size group or even less at 50 yards. Prbs mostly do better but the bare ball load is plenty consistent and a deer getter well past 50yds. A paper plate will easily contain any and every shot including flyers.

 

[tonykarter]

God help me: I don't even own a smoothbore, yet I'm over here reading threads on the smoothbore forum. ML is a sickness, isn't it? I can walk away from this smokey white devil anytime I want to...