Taylor Uberti better than Uberti?

[45D]

Message sent.

 

[WSAR15]

The lastest is the best.
I had an Uberti 1851 Navy Black Powder Revolver on order from Midway - they shipped me a Taylor Uberti!!!! Just arrived. Taylor product packaging with revolver rug/pouch in a Midway shipping carton and label. The revolver seems to operate fine.

 

[fireman1]

The lastest is the best.
I had an Uberti 1851 Navy Black Powder Revolver on order from Midway - they shipped me a Taylor Uberti!!!! Just arrived. Taylor product packaging with revolver rug/pouch in a Midway shipping carton and label. The revolver seems to operate fine.

post some pics please.

 

[GYJ]

This presupposes that the only QC occurs on the 'finished gun' when in all likelihood each individual part is subjected to some type of QC before final inspection. It would be a simple matter to 'grade' parts as they are made (for example A, B or C grades etc.) and place them in separate marked bins for use in specific production runs later - including the parts to be marked for Cimarron or Taylor's.

Except they're not doing that. It would make no sense to cherry pick parts for one importer over another. They're all the same.

 

[GYJ]

You know that for a fact do you?

Yes, I do. Plus it makes no sense.

 

[1861 Springfield]

Taylor's and Cimarron offer Uberti revolvers that are nicer in fit and finish than others. They cost a bit more but they really are nicer.

wrong

 

[GYJ]

When was the last time you were in Uberti's or Pietta's factories and involved in their strategic planning meetings?

Let's see, the folks who tour the factories, talk to the engineers and write about these guns say there's no difference. The folks who own a bunch from every importer say there's no difference. The folks who work on the things for a living say there's no difference. When I cornered Mike Harvey on another forum he admitted there's no difference. So maybe there's no difference. But if you want to believe that they put substandard parts into guns that are all finished the same and only sell those to certain importers to save a few pennies, don't let me sway you.

 

[GYJ]

Wow, I should have known that a factory tour and talk with engineers would reveal all of a company's trade secrets. Of course I take your word on all the other things you say without references being quoted...

As for it "makes no sense" - well I can only surmise that you have little if any business experience to not comprehend that scrapping a part is the least profitable disposition that can be made to substandard parts. I worked for years for a companies that did everything within their power to avoid selling parts for scrap if there was another possible outlet for products - if it didn't meet 'Grade A' then downgrade to 'Grade B', if it didn't meet either Grades A or B then downgrade to 'Grade C'. Only as a last resort did a part get sold to the scrap dealer - 'scrap' looks bad on paper. And yes, we had customers that we did special inspections on the products before we shipped it to them (I didn't think it made sense - but 'making sense' is not necessarily the way businesses work).

Interesting theory with no basis in reality. Do you have a single shred of evidence to support this theory?

So you don't think the gunsmiths that work on these things for a living would notice the difference?

You really think they would be selling guns that look like all the others on the outside but have substandard parts on the inside?

You really think that there are enough substandard parts to satisfy the needs of an importer? Or do they just get the shaft on some guns but not others?

If Cimarron was getting better guns than Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works or Stoeger, their marketing would reflect that. It wouldn't be a "trade secret".

Sorry but whatever your experience is does not apply here. As I've said multiple times, Mike Harvey worked with Cimarron the early 1980's to improve their guns and they paid an additional $30 per gun for the added work. That is the source of the myth you're doing your best to perpetuate and it hasn't been true in at least two decades. Mike admitted it on another forum. At some point the decision was made that it "made more friggin' sense" to build all the guns to the same standards. Rather than having five different standards for five different importers.

 

[GYJ]

ROFL What a joke... What 'theory' are you referring to? If you were intelligent you would understand that business is business the world over and it is even worse over seas. Sorry, but your BS doesn't apply here Mr. Knowitall...

Throttle back on the personal comments there smart guy. I do not know it all but I do know this. I also know how to make a point without personal insults. I also have FIFTY Italian replica revolvers and have been through every one of them. This nonsensical "theory" you have has no basis in reality. If it did, you would be providing evidence, not insults.

I've also been self employed for 18yrs, thank you very much.

 

[Stantheman86]

Grade B guns from Midway. Cosmetic finishing definitely reflects "reject " frames , barrels etc. pulled from parts bins

Internals are functional but rough.

It would be a hard sell to convince me Pietta didn't slap these together for MidWay to sell as "budget" guns and they were assembled with parts that were blemished, unfit for places like Taylor's, or with brass frames with manufacturing defects. They are "Factory Seconds " sold at lower cost.

All these guns are not the same. But that's fine. I knew what I was buying and the guns shoot perfectly. These just aren't the ones you show off or display , just choot em

 

[rhart]

Throttle back on the personal comments there smart guy. I do not know it all but I do know this. I also know how to make a point without personal insults. I also have FIFTY Italian replica revolvers and have been through every one of them. This nonsensical "theory" you have has no basis in reality. If it did, you would be providing evidence, not insults.

I've also been self employed for 18yrs, thank you very much.

You throttle back on the personal comments there super arrogant rude guy. I don't have a "nonsensical theory" or any theory at all - only a little real-world international business experience/schooling. I have only postulated how such a proposition could or would have been carried out and given personal examples of how similar business models have/are carried out. I have not claimed that it absolutely was carried out. I was only countering your self-righteous know-it-all absolutist claims that doing so made no "sense" as if you were an international business expert on the matter.

You may be too closed minded to absorb this, but making good business sense in some countries does not figure much into the decision-making process - in other words, the company may not care if they make money or not because the government subsidizes them (that means the government gave them money so they could stay in business and keep people working). Gee, I wonder if Italy is one of those countries (I don't know - I've never been to Italy or to the factories of Uberti or Pietta or whoever...). Of course this is not the only reason why business leaders make decisions that some people can't make sense of.

Bottom line:
Saying something 'doesn't make sense' is not a valid argument - you're only saying "I don't understand it" (it doesn't make sense to at least you; you lack mental acuity to grasp the concept);
Repeatedly saying you backed someone into a corner on another forum doesn't sway many people - if you really did you'd have that link handy and post it every time you made that boast, otherwise most people call BS (at least silently). Your close-minded and heavy-handed 'bully style' approach is off-putting and may even have gotten this person to sarcastically have said "yeah, right" which you jumped on to claim victory for all anyone knows that didn't witness it;
Congratulations on being self employed for 18 yrs. - how, specifically, is that relevant to this conversation? My younger brother has been self employed for the last 30 yrs. but his construction business model has few parallels with mass factory production business models;
Interesting that you have exactly FIFTY Italian replica revolvers - I envy your collection.


Making a little bet with myself that you're not strong enough internally to walk away from this conversation without responding. Because you have to have the last word don't you (even though you turned this into an argument by misconstruing my comments as advocating for one side or the other)?

 

[fireman1]

How about the 2 of you guys throttle back and treat each other how you would want to be treated? Disagree respectfully?

rhart, you have been here just a couple of months. Don't blow your acct up so soon.

GYJ...you've been around a few years. Don't take the bait from a new guy. Maybe he's a troll or maybe not but relax, it's just the internet.

 

[jd945043]

There are always going to be tiers of quality. Anyone who happens to not know the Monday/Friday rule for quality is going to go for the cheapest. In other words you are asking to be a victim of poor quality. Anyone who believes that they are made the same is asking to be a suckered out of hard earned money. If someone is naive enough to believe that quality does not differ has never owned anything. I believe Uberti is inferior to Pietta. NEVER has one of my Piettas needed to be tuned but EVERY Uberti has. A quality product should not need to have anything done to it but its just the way it is

 

[jd945043]

The problem with that is that by the time the guns are made, they're already stamped with the importer's markings. It's not like their QC staff can go over a finished gun and say, "this one's not quite up to snuff, let's send it to our house brand Stoeger instead of Cimarron".

The CMP is just grading existing guns with no care for how they're marked. Big difference.

Dude you are so wrong. QA officers usually have their own punches. They don't punch the product then let it be produced.

 

[45D]

There are always going to be tiers of quality. Anyone who happens to not know the Monday/Friday rule for quality is going to go for the cheapest. In other words you are asking to be a victim of poor quality. Anyone who believes that they are made the same is asking to be a suckered out of hard earned money. If someone is naive enough to believe that quality does not differ has never owned anything. I believe Uberti is inferior to Pietta. NEVER has one of my Piettas needed to be tuned but EVERY Uberti has. A quality product should not need to have anything done to it but its just the way it is

Just wondering if you've actually handled a truly tuned revolver?

Pietta's action parts are modern made renditions of typical '70's parts ( pick any maker) whereas Uberti's are close to original layout, cut steel and nicely finished. They are excellent quality.
Pietta parts take much more work to have an equal operation of the Uberti part. I have a Pietta made "unmentionable" ( my first one from that maker) that had problems from the get go. The replacement bolts for those (Model P copies) are so far out of spec, they're "worn out" before they can be installed!! Lol
I contacted an import company about this and they agreed with me and told me they have that part pulled from the line before the step is done that ruins them!! Sweet!!
They had 10 available and I bought 2. They were exactly as stated and now my revolver is the equal of the El Patron (Uberti) ( I shouldn't have sold) that it replaced. The main difference now is that the Pietta can't shoot what the Uberti can.

So, as nice as that revolver can be ( it is quite the machine!!) I won't go out of my way to get another.

Mike

 

[jd945043]

Just wondering if you've actually handled a truly tuned revolver?

Pietta's action parts are modern made renditions of typical '70's parts ( pick any maker) whereas Uberti's are close to original layout, cut steel and nicely finished. They are excellent quality.
Pietta parts take much more work to have an equal operation of the Uberti part. I have a Pietta made "unmentionable" ( my first one from that maker) that had problems from the get go. The replacement bolts for those (Model P copies) are so far out of spec, they're "worn out" before they can be installed!! Lol
I contacted an import company about this and they agreed with me and told me they have that part pulled from the line before the step is done that ruins them!! Sweet!!
They had 10 available and I bought 2. They were exactly as stated and now my revolver is the equal of the El Patron (Uberti) ( I shouldn't have sold) that it replaced. The main difference now is that the Pietta can't shoot what the Uberti can.

So, as nice as that revolver can be ( it is quite the machine!!) I won't go out of my way to get another.

Mike

I'm sorry that you feel being rude makes you a superior person. I have and do own many well working tuned revolvers and my better functioning pieces are Piettas. Sorry for upsetting you but for me it's true. So please keep your lacking of social graces to yourself. I'm sure that when you wrote it you felt like such a legend in your own mind. Sadly you just sounded like Alzheimer Joe Biden.

 

[fireman1]

I'm sorry that you feel being rude makes you a superior person. I have and do own many well working tuned revolvers and my better functioning pieces are Piettas. Sorry for upsetting you but for me it's true. So please keep your lacking of social graces to yourself. I'm sure that when you wrote it you felt like such a legend in your own mind. Sadly you just sounded like Alzheimer Joe Biden.

The man asked you a question. He said nothing insulting or rude to you. Your response on that is way over the top. Are you trying to get the thread locked?

 

[fireman1]

I'm sorry that you feel being rude makes you a superior person. I have and do own many well working tuned revolvers and my better functioning pieces are Piettas. Sorry for upsetting you but for me it's true. So please keep your lacking of social graces to yourself. I'm sure that when you wrote it you felt like such a legend in your own mind. Sadly you just sounded like Alzheimer Joe Biden.

The man asked you a question. He said nothing insulting or rude to you. Your response on that is way over the top. Are you trying to get the thread locked?

 

[fireman1]

Wow....CHAINFIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

 

[jd945043]

If you read what he said right off the bat he tried to make a belittling remark. That is considered rudeness.