The Triple Seven Rust Challenge

[Brokenbear]

OK ...I admit it ..I shoot T7 in everything ..there it's done ! ..now the discussion starts ..

I don't mind at all pulling a barrel assembly out of the stock and drawing thru it mildly soaped water and neutralizing the bad parts of Black Powder ..or Pyrodex (if no black is available) ..and then once dry my trusty 3 in 1 oil inside and out.

But a couple of years ago with no Black and no Pyrodex I continued on with Triple Seven ..

So I had over the course of a couple of years a couple of times where life got in the way of timely cleaning after shooting ..(pesky heart attack for example)

And you know what ..no rust ..??? ..10 days and no rust and dead of summer too (high humidity)

So I started my first incursion into open top Colts (using T7) ..and I cleaned them just like an un-mentionable with Hoppe #9, bronze brush, occasional Bore lead remover then followed up with 3 in 1 oil inside and out ..still no rust.

Now I know the clean up recommendations from the T7 manufacturer suggest the same water/soap clean up we are all used to doing with Black and Pyrodex clean up ..but my experience is growing a suspicion that T7 will in fact clean up with soap and water but ..also with modern (read quick clean methods) as described above.

Now I am retired but I am very busy ..church work, farming, grip building, wood working, drowning worms etc. ..all very important "stuff" ..but I will share this ..

I find I will grab a box full of Colts and bust some caps at the farm and do it far more often than when I had the mindset of having to have a block of multiple hours to travel, shoot, return to clean and then go another direction ..

So the question begs to be asked ..do you have any experience where after having had a T7 (only) shooting session and been interrupted in a timely clean up of the weapon which resulted in you encountering rust be it "dusty" rust or true metal pocking blue killing rust ..

Just an inquiring mind

Bear

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I shoot lots of T7 but always clean right after. If not right after then same day for sure. Don’t think I’d want to leave it in there.

 

[deermanok]

I have some Triple 7 for one of my "other " guns. Recently decided to burn up the last of a bottle by using it in my 45 caliber deerhunter rifle along with my standard 445 round balls.
The stuff shot really good. I cleaned up as usual with warm soapy water. No problem.

 

[Brokenbear]

Well I guess .. this has no definitive answer ..because of ???

1. No one will admit using T7
2. Not many really using T7
3. Or T7 is not rusting guns

Just kidding on #1 but # 2 is possible on a national basis however my local shop gets in lots of T7 and it won't last a week even with 2 can limits ...
#3 is still a wild card but seriously we front stuffers are pretty religious about clean up after shooting sessions ..but surely someone has fubared and done a "tardy" clean up ???

Maybe one of you guys has a clunker to run some T7 through to see if it will rust using just modern cleaning methods or just a minimal wipe down with an oily rag ???

Bear

 

[necchi]

,,,,,do you have any experience where after having had a T7 (only) shooting session and been interrupted in a timely clean up of the weapon which resulted in you encountering rust be it "dusty" rust or true metal pocking blue killing rust ..

Nope.
Use is use,
Clean-up is clean-up,
Neglect is neglect,
Pick your poison. They're all the same.
No excuses, no worry's.

 

[DixieTexian]

I've gone as much as a week without cleaning after triple seven with no issues. Would not recommend as a matter of practice, but if something happens and you aren't able to clean it for a few days and it is in a low humidity environment I wouldn't start sweating too much.

 

[hanshi]

I have on a couple of occasions waited a day or more to clean a rifle after firing real BP. I guess I dodged the bullet, err, prb, as there was no rust.

 

[nhmoose]

I have 1 pound of T7 never been opened. I was going to try it a while ago but Rotor Cuff surgery then a Tripple Cardiac by-pass, now Cataract surgery this month, Wifes hip replacement 2 weeks ago just never got around to using it.

I have heard good things from guys who use it however. They still clean after shooting unlike many young guys who do not want to.

Any handguns I shoot at the range get cleaned then and there. I was taught that in the Academy never ever carry a dirty weapon. It's called cover your own ass

 

[gunpa]

I have burned a lot of T7. I clean pretty quick( OCD) but just use a black powder solvent on a jag, dry the bore and very light oil. I've NEVER seen a sign of rust inside or outside. Pyrodex or real black isn't so forgiving.

 

[centershot]

Years ago, '07 maybe, I bought a .54 Renegade from necchi. At that time I had bee out of the muzzle loader game for about ten years. The reason I bought that Renegade was because I had won an unmentionable in a local volunteer fire department raffle and after using it for a couple months, I wanted a traditional muzzle loader also. At that time no one locally handled black powder but all the LGS's carried T-7. So, T-7 it was! Until I realized that, unlike BP, T-7 had a shelf life. That cost me a couple of deer before I figured it out. But in the ten or so years that I used T-7, there was no rust problem. I found that it actually cleaned up easier than BP with nothing but soap and water. It's good stuff! In these times of challenging availability, I'd use it again if BP wasn't available.

 

[TFoley]

I got gifted four unopened bottles/jars/jugs whatever of T7 and tried it out in my ROA. Worked just fine with a 25gr load, smelled rather odd, like burning sugar, but cleaned up without a hitch.

Getting so much for free means that I can use my precious BP for something else, trouble is, all my other BP guns use 1 1/2 or 2 Fg........

 

[Brokenbear]

Years ago, '07 maybe, I bought a .54 Renegade from necchi. At that time I had bee out of the muzzle loader game for about ten years. The reason I bought that Renegade was because I had won an unmentionable in a local volunteer fire department raffle and after using it for a couple months, I wanted a traditional muzzle loader also. At that time no one locally handled black powder but all the LGS's carried T-7. So, T-7 it was! Until I realized that, unlike BP, T-7 had a shelf life. That cost me a couple of deer before I figured it out. But in the ten or so years that I used T-7, there was no rust problem. I found that it actually cleaned up easier than BP with nothing but soap and water. It's good stuff! In these times of callenging availability, I'd use it again if BP wasn't available.

I have heard others comment on "shelf life" question-ability but ..only a few ever went into detail as to what caused them to issue the shelf life proclamation as you have done. (which I am sure you are correct)
The questions that come to my mind are things like ..does a factory sealed can deteriorate sitting in a perfect environment?? >>cool/dry/dark (I don't know but I have 8 pounds that may very well give me a hard learned lesson)
BP is so simple chemically we know in perfect storage it is almost ageless whereas .. modern smokeless powders will deteriorate over time ..lasting longer in good storage and less in poor
So back to T7.. I wonder if the "deterioration" is storage..(think flask/horn full of powder hanging on a nail in the garage) would definitely alter it's chemical properties quicker than a sealed can in perfect environmental control
So far I have not encountered any noticeable change in the T7 power curve BUT ..I'm only into T7 2 years and everything ..powder,caps, horn, guns are in 72 degrees 50% or less humidity, dark when not present controlled environment
Interesting this problem

Bear

 

[JamesA]

I am a new user of T7, for about a month and a half now, it was a member on here that suggested it. Thank you sir, it works very well. I do not plan on buying any more Pyrodex, in fact I gave away several pounds to a group holding a black powder shoot so they could award them as prizes. I'll hang on to my real black powder (2½ lbs.) just for sentimental reasons, but nothing goes in my black powder firearms but T7 from now on. My experiences with it have been very good. Much easier to clean up and after cleaning, I can run a white patch through the barrel and it comes out white even after sitting for several weeks. The stuff shoots pretty damned good too. It's not period correct for 1770's through whatever but it is period correct for today, the time in which I reside.

Having said that, shoot whatever you brung.....have some fun.

Stay safe, stay healthy, and stay armed.

 

[SDSmlf]

So the question begs to be asked ..do you have any experience where after having had a T7 (only) shooting session and been interrupted in a timely clean up of the weapon which resulted in you encountering rust be it "dusty" rust or true metal pocking blue killing rust .

I have not noticed any visual rust after T7 has been used, though that is mostly from observations of others guns. What little T7 I have used was cleaned up in a timely manner.

One of our hunting partners has put the ‘don’t clean today’ theory to the test in his own way. First off, I would call the guy lazy when it comes to taking care of his stuff. He is very hard on things. Anyway, soon after T7 came out he switched to it for his inlines because you ‘didn’t need to clean the gun right away after shooting’. In his mind, that meant waiting until the end of hunting season. I don’t know how many times he shot his gun over a month or two, but for conversation guessing at least a dozen times. After the end of hunting season plus a little time he attempted to shoot the gun. No boom. He then attempted to remove the removable breech plug. Broke the factory supplied tool. That’s when he asked for help, knowing that I had removed breech plugs and barrels from actions of modern guns. We able to pull the load (he didn’t think of that). Ultimately it took more effort than removing a factory installed TC breech plug, but no rust was found in his stainless barrel or on the mangled breech plug. Guess they didn’t use that tough of stainless for the plug. He claimed he used choke lube on the threads, but I doubt it. Rust no. Crud, yes.

As far as shelf life, I purchased some T7 soon after it came out (2001) and found it pretty energetic, hotter by volume than any other powder according to the chronograph. For a number reasons the T7 was put away and not used. The open containers had desiccant packs put in them, and all were stored in plastic bags in a controlled environment. Hodgdon had said that as long as the stuff wasn’t exposed to moisture it would keep, so I wanted to keep it dry. I don’t have the data in front of me but, but a number of years later the velocity was checked again, using the same powder, powder charge, projectile, gun and chronograph. The velocity when tested dropped by about 40% from original testing. Probably doesn’t apply if you don’t keep much inventory. Here is a photograph of one of my 2001 containers.

If T7 works for you, great.

 

[centershot]

In my case, the shelf-life gremlin came in the form of what I call "misfires". Three times in the same week, pulled the trigger on a nice deer, and "POOF", a large orange flash, a LOT of smoke, no deer. That can was opeed n the late summer, gun was zeroed and we went hunting. Aftewr the third "Poof", I bought a new can and everything was good again. During the off- season I laid in a supply of black powderr, been burning real black ever since.

 

[toot]

I have burned a lot of T7. I clean pretty quick( OCD) but just use a black powder solvent on a jag, dry the bore and very light oil. I've NEVER seen a sign of rust inside or outside. Pyrodex or real black isn't so forgiving.

you are so right, I call T-7, T-777 a 3 some times 4 patch clean up. OK! in my book.

 

[Big Iron]

I like it in Colt BP revolvers, clean up is easier.

BI

 

[nhmoose]

Never heard of T7 shelf life but opened Pyrodex did. From the scout camp Pyro had less than a year until problems of opened cans. I cannot tell as the 5-year opened can of RS I have still makes great 10-gauge cannon shots fine.

 

[toot]

try it you will like it.

 

[nichmo]

OK ...I admit it ..I shoot T7 in everything ..there it's done ! ..now the discussion starts ..

I don't mind at all pulling a barrel assembly out of the stock and drawing thru it mildly soaped water and neutralizing the bad parts of Black Powder ..or Pyrodex (if no black is available) ..and then once dry my trusty 3 in 1 oil inside and out.

But a couple of years ago with no Black and no Pyrodex I continued on with Triple Seven ..

So I had over the course of a couple of years a couple of times where life got in the way of timely cleaning after shooting ..(pesky heart attack for example)

And you know what ..no rust ..??? ..10 days and no rust and dead of summer too (high humidity)

So I started my first incursion into open top Colts (using T7) ..and I cleaned them just like an un-mentionable with Hoppe #9, bronze brush, occasional Bore lead remover then followed up with 3 in 1 oil inside and out ..still no rust.

Now I know the clean up recommendations from the T7 manufacturer suggest the same water/soap clean up we are all used to doing with Black and Pyrodex clean up ..but my experience is growing a suspicion that T7 will in fact clean up with soap and water but ..also with modern (read quick clean methods) as described above.

Now I am retired but I am very busy ..church work, farming, grip building, wood working, drowning worms etc. ..all very important "stuff" ..but I will share this ..

I find I will grab a box full of Colts and bust some caps at the farm and do it far more often than when I had the mindset of having to have a block of multiple hours to travel, shoot, return to clean and then go another direction ..

So the question begs to be asked ..do you have any experience where after having had a T7 (only) shooting session and been interrupted in a timely clean up of the weapon which resulted in you encountering rust be it "dusty" rust or true metal pocking blue killing rust ..

Just an inquiring mind

Bear

I use triple 7 and am not ashamed of it. It works for my deer hunting needs. Now to your question about rust. After shooting a deer a couple of seasons back I got distracted and didn't clean my rifle (Remington model 700ML circa mid 90s) for several weeks. When I grabbed it to clean it I noticed rust on the outside of chamber area and on the underside of my scope. I removed the breech plug and the end was rusty along with the bolt. Running patches through the barrel brought out a lot of rust.
After many patches and fine abrasives I had a clean barrel. Upon inspection I could see pitting near the end of the barrel and near the chamber end. I took the rifle out and it shot 1 inch groups at 100 yards with Barnes X copper bullets. Just about where it was before the rust.