Trying to understand this “short arbor” on Uberti revolvers

[lone pine]

just stumbled across this.
having issues with my whitneyville also.

lp

 

[45D]

just stumbled across this.
having issues with my whitneyville also.

lp

There are "more recent" discussions (explanations) on the subject. Use the search function with "short arbor". I have explained it exhaustively and WHY proper setup allows me to shoot +p ammo in my particular '60 Armys and Dragoons . . . they're still going strong and I just got my '60's cylinders back from being reamed ( Dragoons didn't need it . . . ) ready for a range trip!!!

Mike

 

[CaptainKirk]

There are "more recent" discussions (explanations) on the subject. Use the search function with "short arbor". I have explained it exhaustively and WHY proper setup allows me to shoot +p ammo in my particular '60 Armys and Dragoons . . . they're still going strong and I just got my '60's cylinders back from being reamed ( Dragoons didn't need it . . . ) ready for a range trip!!!

Mike

IMHO the major factor involved with "short arbor" is that Uberti continues to pretend there is no issue, and in their owner's manual mentions using the depth of seating the wedge to "set the proper cylinder gap clearance" when everyone (Pietta included) has figured out that's not a cool thing to do. And so while Goon (45D) and everyone else have dialed in the workaround down to a science through various methods, Uberti continues to produce short arbored revolvers and deny there is an issue.

 

[M. De Land]

There are "more recent" discussions (explanations) on the subject. Use the search function with "short arbor". I have explained it exhaustively and WHY proper setup allows me to shoot +p ammo in my particular '60 Armys and Dragoons . . . they're still going strong and I just got my '60's cylinders back from being reamed ( Dragoons didn't need it . . . ) ready for a range trip!!!

Mike

What is the reaming profile on the chambers Mike?

 

[M. De Land]

IMHO the major factor involved with "short arbor" is that Uberti continues to pretend there is no issue, and in their owner's manual mentions using the depth of seating the wedge to "set the proper cylinder gap clearance" when everyone (Pietta included) has figured out that's not a cool thing to do. And so while Goon (45D) and everyone else have dialed in the workaround down to a science through various methods, Uberti continues to produce short arbored revolvers and deny there is an issue.

Well, that's because there are tens of thousands of them out there that work fine and have been for decades without the arbor end fit.
It's a good mod and I feel a worth while improvement but not absolutely necessary for them to work well and be accurate without it !

 

[45D]

What is the reaming profile on the chambers Mike?

Before I started loading 100's of "spicy" rounds I figured I'd check the .452" bullets I use in the throats. Turned out to be a "no go" in both cylinders! I had checked the
Dragoon cylinders yrs ago when I got them and they are fine.
Turns out one cylinder was .451" and the other was .450" !!! Now, both are .4525" and I'll feel much better with the ammo I'm using. The Dragoons will be getting some exercise with 45C +p's I loaded up while the acp cyls were in the hospital! Probably go to the range this weekend.

Mike

 

[CaptainKirk]

Well, that's because there are tens of thousands of them out there that work fine and have been for decades without the arbor end fit.
It's a good mod and I feel a worth while improvement but not absolutely necessary for them to work well and be accurate without it !

...and corporate lawyers advising not to admit there is an issue, perhaps?

 

[M. De Land]

...and corporate lawyers advising not to admit there is an issue, perhaps?

You can bet they know Pietta has corrected this and eventually they will have to follow suit or loose market share. It just takes a bit of pain in the ole wallet to get the message across to the bosses ! This will be good news for consumers as Uberti seems to go the extra mile on fit and finish of all other aspects of their guns.
I still don't know for sure that Colt originally fit the arbor ends in production guns either but have been told it probably was their practice.
I do know (read ) that Walkers were supplied with extra wedges because they eat wedges on production guns regularly which is an indication that the arbor ends were not very tight. It also could be the wedges weren't sufficiently hard but I'd guess the former makes more sense as to cause .
I suppose the extra wedges could have been explained by loss but this did not seem to follow or be a problem on any of their other models of open top guns that also employed a wedge keep spring.

 

[M. De Land]

You can bet they know Pietta has corrected this and eventually they will have to follow suit or loose market share. It just takes a bit of pain in the ole wallet to get the message across to the bosses ! This will be good news for consumers as Uberti seems to go the extra mile on fit and finish of all other aspects of their guns.
I still don't know for sure that Colt originally fit the arbor ends in production guns either but have been told it probably was their practice.
I do know (read ) that Walkers were supplied with extra wedges because they eat wedges on production guns regularly which is an indication that the arbor ends were not very tight. It also could be the wedges weren't sufficiently hard but I'd guess the former makes more sense as to cause .
I suppose the extra wedges could have been explained by loss but this did not seem to follow or be a problem on any of their other models of open top guns that also employed a wedge keep spring.

I've end fit my Uberti Walker arbor in it's well and am curious to see if it eats wedges as I will be shooting heavy loads of BP and conicals in it for a good test. If it does I'll replace it with one of my home made tool steel jobs that so far seem to be better than the factory numbers.
The radial trough fitting the keep screw head eliminates the need for a keep spring.

 

[45D]

I still don't know for sure that Colt originally fit the arbor ends in production guns either but have been told it probably was their practice.

Every original Colt open-top I've ever worked on had a correctly fitting arbor. That includes '60 Armys, a '51 Navy and a pocket revolver.
I just happen to currently have two 1st gen pocket revolvers in the shop.
The arbor is correctly fitted in both -

All of the original arbor ends look like this -

and yes, they've all had gain twist rifling. So, whether anyone chooses to believe me or not, this has always been what I've found and read how they should be . . .

I do know (read ) that Walkers were supplied with extra wedges because they eat wedges on production guns regularly which is an indication that the arbor ends were not very tight.

I suppose the extra wedges could have been explained by loss but this did not seem to follow or be a problem on any of their other models of open top guns that also employed a wedge keep spring.

They very well could have been requested and "loss" could very well be the reason. 60 gr charges are pretty brutal today and were just as brutal then. More than a few wedges have been damaged from "thumb pressure" (powder puff loads are more forgiving) and if that's what some tried using, I can attest to the Walker's capability of removing the wedge (like spitting a watermelon seed) and sending the barrel down range. The Walker was probably the first to do this with such splendor and awe when "done right"!!!

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Every original Colt open-top I've ever worked on had a correctly fitting arbor. That includes '60 Armys, a '51 Navy and a pocket revolver.
I just happen to currently have two 1st gen pocket revolvers in the shop.
The arbor is correctly fitted in both -
View attachment 338643

All of the original arbor ends look like this -
View attachment 338644

and yes, they've all had gain twist rifling. So, whether anyone chooses to believe me or not, this has always been what I've found and read how they should be . . .



They very well could have been requested and "loss" could very well be the reason. 60 gr charges are pretty brutal today and were just as brutal then. More than a few wedges have been damaged from "thumb pressure" (powder puff loads are more forgiving) and if that's what some tried using, I can attest to the Walker's capability of removing the wedge (like spitting a watermelon seed) and sending the barrel down range. The Walker was probably the first to do this with such splendor and awe when "done right"!!!

Mike

Thanks Mike, that's good evidence I can hang my hat on and what I want to know about !
Look at all that arbor stock "meat" out front of the slot !

 

[lone pine]

M. De Land "Every original Colt open-top I've ever worked on had a correctly fitting arbor. That includes '60 Armys, a '51 Navy and a pocket revolver.
I just happen to currently have two 1st gen pocket revolvers in the shop.
The arbor is correctly fitted in both -"
well since post #22 this discussion is over my head a bit. I'm just gonna take mine to the range and shoot it.

 

[lone pine]

correction post #122

 

[Bad Karma]

...and corporate lawyers advising not to admit there is an issue, perhaps?

For what reason? Someone would need to show standing and damages in some substantial amount in order to file a suit let alone win one. Uberti have a very successful firm making products that people want to buy as they are.

 

[CaptainKirk]

For what reason? Someone would need to show standing and damages in some substantial amount in order to file a suit let alone win one. Uberti have a very successful firm making products that people want to buy as they are.

Because if you admit publicly that you have been selling a flawed product that you knew was flawed, (and they have certainly been informed) you are responsible for making good on it. And with all the Colt replicas that Uberti has sold over the last 7 decades that could run into millions of dollars of liability.
Better to just play dumb and pretend you know nothing.

 

[French Colonial]

Because if you admit publicly that you have been selling a flawed product that you knew was flawed, (and they have certainly been informed) you are responsible for making good on it. And with all the Colt replicas that Uberti has sold over the last 7 decades that could run into millions of dollars of liability.
Better to just play dumb and pretend you know nothing.

So try suing them and see how far you get, your case will be dismissed because you do not have standing and can not show how you were harmed.

AND, the short arbor is only a flaw to a few people trying to make a buck by fixing the non existent problem.

 

[45D]

AND, the short arbor is only a flaw to a few people trying to make a buck by fixing the non existent problem.

Actually, the "flaw" is a "flaw" (funny that a "non-believer" would admit a "flaw" is present yet it's a "non existent problem" ) that's been discussed for nearly 20 years, so more than a "few" folks know about it. It's like saying "bore alignment", "chamber alignment", "forcing cone condition" . . . don't have any influence on accuracy. Pure hogwash!!
Thanks to some folks that understand and explain the SIMPLE steps to correct the flaw, it's an easy DIY (for most anyway). In fact, if Uberti WOULD fix their "flaw", that would save me the 10 -15 minutes ( out of the 12 + hrs spent doing everything else) to do the correction.
Just for the record, the arbor "fix" and tightening loose arbors is "on the house", they are easy /quick fixes that are necessary to be able to take advantage of the actual "tuning" done. I've never had a revolver in the shop for just an "arbor correction" (again, too easy for most folks).

Mike

 

[CaptainKirk]

So try suing them and see how far you get, your case will be dismissed because you do not have standing and can not show how you were harmed.

AND, the short arbor is only a flaw to a few people trying to make a buck by fixing the non existent problem.

I have no reason to sue them. I fixed my Ubertis myself or had 45D fix them during tuning.
It's very frustrating for a manufacturer to know there is an issue yet refuse to acknowledge it.
How many Colt replicas do you own, if I may ask?

 

[French Colonial]

I have no reason to sue them. I fixed my Ubertis myself or had 45D fix them during tuning.
It's very frustrating for a manufacturer to know there is an issue yet refuse to acknowledge it.
How many Colt replicas do you own, if I may ask?

How many do I need?

 

[CaptainKirk]

How many do I need?

More than one, to realize that short arbor is not an imaginary problem. BTW, other makes and models are similarly affected including ASM, FIE etc. Most Piettas are not.