What do you see as the future for Traditional Muzzleloading

[hatchetjack]

You can't really blame them for knowing it all, it's what a lot of gun magazines tell them. The manufacturers of say, knight rifles, did a really good job of selling their product and people who have never really shot a muzzleloader, listened to what they said. They came out with a new kind of rifle that they said would cure the pitfalls of traditional muzzleloaders, and never having experienced shooting or hunting with a traditional muzzleloader, they believed what they were told. The regular hunter had no idea how to load, shoot or take care of a traditional muzzleloader so they bought into the notion that they were filled with pitfalls, which you and I know isn't really true. Trying to get younger people shooting traditional muzzleloaders is a very difficult thing to do because they were told by just about every gunwriter out there that inlines were the only way to go and since they were writers for respectable magazines, it must be true.

 

[Coot]

While gun ownership may not be declining, I believe that shooting and hunting are practiced by a declining % of the population. A more urban/suburban lifestyle, liberal anti-gun media & school indoctrination, fewer places to shoot (no public ranges at all in many areas). The anti gun crowd is out breeding and out preaching us. As far as traditional muzzleloading goes, I think that we will always be a small fraction of the shooting sports.

 

[renovato]

I tend to agree with Roundball. I think we're going to become even more of a minority. People are becoming more and more brainwashed into the "new and improved" marketing hype that plagues everything from cars to cell phones. That form of marketing is especially egregious in the firearms industry, where guns don't normally wear out and get replaced every few years like other consumer goods. They need to make you think your "old" one just won't do what the "new" (I.E. "restyled") ones will, to get you to buy. That midset spills over into the muzzleloading community in the form of #*@lines and "new" bullet/sabot designs that get redesigned/invented every few months.

But on the positive side, one thing seems consistent and that is the cyclic nature of what's "fashionable". It seems that trends and interests come back around every couple decades. There may be a peak of interest again in the future, but I doubt it'll ever have the numbers it has had in the last few decades. The young folks just aren't as interested in "old" stuff. To many of them, even a 1911 pistol is "obsolete". I've seen that very arguement dozens of times on other gun related boards.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Grim. Lots of bald heads and white hair running around in this crowd and darned few youngsters. I encouraged a youngser I know to start reading this site and a couple of others, and he did for a while.

Then he quit, saying: "All those guys do is argue. No one can do anything right, so where's a newcomer to go without getting chewed out for doing something wrong?"

I can understand that. I sometimes think the "debates" get a little personal, but you have to remember that "youngsters" see things a little differently than adults.

When my children were very young, they would sometimes think my wife and I were arguing, simply because we were talking about something very important. They weren't old enough to know what a "serious discussion" was, where two people may have slightly differing points of view, but really be trying to find a common solution.

I can see a newcomer being a little turned off by some straight, no nonsense advice, but generally, I think newcomers are treated very well here.

 

[Jumpshot]

They weren't old enough to know what a "serious discussion" was...

There are a lot of children here with the same problem. :grin:

 

[Johnny Tremain]

when places like CA are allowed to outlaw firearms bigger than 50 cal.

Even the fore fathers are rolling over in thier graves.

Gun Powder will be the issue. when its gone, so will shooting

 

[akapennypincher]

I think it will continue to dwindle away next to nothing and the reasons I think that are:

There's no big "draw" for it like "primitive hunting seasons" as they've been over run;

The era of big screen westerns and pioneer type movies has passed by and no longer have a following so that "draw" is gone;

There are less places to shoot every year;

There are less places to hunt every year;

There are almost no places that carry the equipment that people can walk in and see, handle, etc;

There are less knowledgable people to pass on the knowledge;

Not trying to be gloom and doom, just honest.

I think you speak the truth few care to hear.

 

[akapennypincher]

It's sad to think that our site actually drove away a potential newcomer.
We often don't realize how bad some people look when they get into their "heated discussions".

Makes me wonder how many other potential newcomers we've lost.

Well Zonie lurkers can not even view the FORUM with out Joining.

 

[mykeal]

My own personal experience and view is so opposite roundball's that I hardly know where to begin.

I know this will be heretical, but it goes along with the idea of speaking a truth that nobody wants to hear: virtually all of the 'newbies' to the traditional side of muzzleloading in my area started with an inline rifle purchased with the sole intent of extending their deer season. There aren't a lot of them, and certainly not a large percentage of the people who bought inlines for that reason then buy a traditional rifle, but I know from personal experience that it does happen regularly.

And, in my opinion (again, one of those truths that nobody wants to hear) one of the things we do that hurts our traditional sport is attack the inline users, intentionally building a wall that deters interest in our side of the sport. We are thus seen as a bunch of grumpy old men who will complain and make fun of newcomers. Who would want to join that fraternity?

Locally we have a small group of muzzleloaders who get together once a month to shoot on private land. They refuse to join the local sportsman's club and, although they publish their meet results in the local paper, they won't publish any contact information so new people can meet them and participate. When asked why, I get a 10 minute rant against inline rifles.

I'm not an inline fan by any means (I have 9 sidelock rifles and 1 inline), but I really think we set up a barrier that keeps out people who have shown an interest in muzzleloading in general when we rave against that technology.

We make our own future with the action we take and the actions we decide not to take. If traditional muzzleloading indeed has no future, and I for one believe it does, then it's our own fault.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

my personal experience has been this -
when I got into BP guns I made a CVA pistol kit and shot it some at camp-outs with shooting/drinking buddys, they didn't exhibit any interest just curiousity.
then I bought a '58 Remmy and they perked up some.
then I bought a CVA Hawkin .50 cal and another fella bought a T/C .50 after shooting mine.
then I bought a ROA and another fella got one too.
I see it as slowly expanding, but the cost of BP and/or Pyro may factor in. revolvers I think will bring more newbys into the fold.
I hardly ever see any hunters w/sidelocks at all. the in-lines have taken over but I still am against allowing them here.
I'm hopeing to get a smooth bore sometime to use for small game and birds.

 

[pchwcf50110]

And, in my opinion (again, one of those truths that nobody wants to hear) one of the things we do that hurts our traditional sport is attack the inline users, intentionally building a wall that deters interest in our side of the sport. We are thus seen as a bunch of grumpy old men who will complain and make fun of newcomers. Who would want to join that fraternity?

Locally we have a small group of muzzleloaders who get together once a month to shoot on private land. They refuse to join the local sportsman's club and, although they publish their meet results in the local paper, they won't publish any contact information so new people can meet them and participate. When asked why, I get a 10 minute rant against inline rifles.

I'm not an inline fan by any means (I have 9 sidelock rifles and 1 inline), but I really think we set up a barrier that keeps out people who have shown an interest in muzzleloading in general when we rave against that technology.

We make our own future with the action we take and the actions we decide not to take. If traditional muzzleloading indeed has no future, and I for one believe it does, then it's our own fault.[/quote]
couldn't agree more.

 

[fyrfyter43]

I think we need to invest a little into the future of traditional muzzleloading. Introduce kids to the joys of shooting a sidelock. If someone shows even a passing interest, encourage them. Let 'em take a few shots at the range.

When I was a fairly young man, a friend of my father's encouraged me to take a few shots with his caplock. This was before inlines, and he was one of those guys shooting a muzzleloader only to extend his hunting season. But that was all it took to spark an interest in me. My parents bought me a TC caplock for Christmas that year.

Unfortunately I fell on some hard times and had to sell that rifle, but I never lost the interest. Now that my son is old enough to hunt, and has passed his hunter education class, I've decided to return to muzzleloaders. I've hunted for years with nothing more than a longbow and wooden arrows, but for me, a flintlock is even more fun than flinging arrows.

When I first mentioned a flintlock, my son's eyes lit up. I'll be getting a GPR in the coming months to get myself started again, and my son will certainly be joining me at the range every chance we have to shoot together. Even though he's a righty (I'm left-handed), I'll make sure he gets the chance to shoot and get hooked the same way I did so many years ago.

 

[mykeal]

Obviously getting the kids involved is important. That's great that you're taking an active part in getting others involved.

I'm a volunteer hunter safety education instructor for the muzzleloading section of the syllabus. I teach inlines, caplocks and flintlocks, and there's always interest in the traditional guns, even from those who came just for the inline stuff.

Last year I volunteered to teach muzzleloading to the local 4H Shooting Sports organization, but had a conflict with other commitments and couldn't follow up. This year I'm making the time.

How about if we quit being grumpy old men and reach out to the other parts of the shooting sports? Maybe if we take an active role in promoting our part of the sport and stop denigrating the other parts we'll see some more shops open and people buying these fine guns. I think it's up to us.

 

[XXX]

It's an odd thing to realize you're a dinosaur, isn't it? I've had that experience in many areas of my life: Muzzleloading, for sure. Judo was once very popular, but has been mostly replaced by flashier (and less effective) karate. (Styles you can get belted in in 18 months!) I'm a Ham radio operator, and that's definitely fading away. Much of my business is still done by handshake, and until a few years ago I was literally debt free. People look at me as if I were from Mars when I mention that.

Oh, and then there are the really odd things, like a belief in personal liberty, responsibility, limited government, self-sufficiency, honesty... I guess they're all as passe as front-stuffers, huh? :shake:

:thumbsup: Good post. I have never owned a cell phone and have had the same land line # since 1992.I get all sorts of disturbing looks from people I have just met who think they need my cell #, and lifelong friends tell me I am way too hard to reach. Funny thing is sales types trying to sell me things I do not want know how to reach me.

 

[Freedom]

Changing Hunting Laws is a good way to help our cause...many states have archery only seasons, these seasons need to be changed to "Primative" seasons. At the very least to include Flintlocks with this season....This would bring in a lot more "Traditional" shooters.

Case in point...A friend of mine has a 100yrd pin on his new "Super Fast Flight" compound bow. I have to really be "On my Game" to compete with him with my flinter off hand. Armed with a range finder, He can put every arrow in a five gallon bucket, at this range. This is not what archery season was ment for.

He killed his elk last year at 87 yrds!!.. He is NOT a "Slob or Unethical Hunter" he is just armed with modern technology and very proficient with it.

Buy getting these seasons changed to allow flintlocks we could bring in a lot of newcomers! :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

"...My own personal experience and view is so opposite roundball's that I hardly know where to begin..."

This thread was started with a request for opinions on the subject...I posted my opinion.

The thread does not ask for you to comment on whether you agree with my opinion, and to be honest the tone of it seems particularly pointed...

 

[XXX]

It's sad to think that our site actually drove away a potential newcomer.
We often don't realize how bad some people look when they get into their "heated discussions".

Makes me wonder how many other potential newcomers we've lost.

I don't buy it. If they were interested at any level, they would ignore the politics and dwell only in the practical discussions about the sport. Case in point, I love sailing and traditional sailboats and dislike "go fast" boats and Jetskies intensely. I naturally gravitated to a wooden boat forum similar to this where most of the regular posters are dyed in the wool communists. I decided that I like the nautical discussions regardless of the politics of whomever posted them and restrict myself to that content and never get involved in political discussions there. (It is pointless trying to argue with a committed communist, never mind a hoard of them). It is not really reasonable to conclude that I would give up my interest in that sport or this one simply because there were people on a website making posts I did not agree with.

 

[XXX]

As many who participate in the Sport, Hobby, Crafts, etc. associated with TRADITIONAL Muzzleloading hit 60, 70, and 70+++. What do you personally see in the future for the hobby?

I think Re-enacting is getting to be a popular pastime. I have no numbers to back that up, but I suspect that hobby is growing. I think the associated aspect of building authentic weapons and equipment is growing as well. I think more people are expanding out from the strictly regimented re-enactor world and are doing the trekking thing on thier own time and in thier own way. I suspect that the industry that supports these activities is getting large as well. On the other hand, I think that hunting with trad ML'ers is in danger.

 

[musketman]

The true traditional hunters/shooters will survive but will likely become a progresivly smaller percentage of the ML community.

I agree with tg 100%, look at the dreaded inline "muzzleloader", it is so much closer to a high power rifle than a muzzleloader that eventually someone in Washington DC will classify them both in the same category and they will judge ALL muzzleloading firearms by that ruling and that will be the end of it as we have grown accustom to.

However, anyone who studied physics can tell you that everything moves in cycles and waves, what does that have to do with this? Simply speaking, we are heading for a trough again.
Muzzleloader's went through this once before, many years ago with the invention of the self contained metallic cartridge and the firearms that used them.

"This is my opinion only and should not be taken as actual fact."

1. Muzzleloaders were invented and evolved through the golden age era. (peak)
2. Then came the cartridge fire arms and muzzleloaders faded from the mainstream (trough)
3. Through the efforts of Turner Kirkland and others, the muzzleloader stages a strong comeback. (peak)
4. The inline started the decline of the traditional muzzleloader, almost everyone jumped on the band wagon as suppliers shifted gears to accommodate this modern muzzleloader. (trough)

 

[rafterob]

It has always been on the fringe, but there are frequent new comers as is evidenced by this forum. Active recruitment is the key to continuing the tradition.