What type of corn meal can i use? Also a question about chainfire. /Paper cartridges

[Desperate Lee]

I personally always use a lubed felt wad under my bullets or balls. If i want it loaded for a long time I put a thin card under the felt to keep oils from seaping into powder charge. My standard lube is beeswax, parrafin, and olive oil. Some times i put a little lanolin in it. I have even made wads with paper towels. Melt the lube, soak the strips of paper towels, let dry, use punch to cut out wads. They tend to stick together so i tumble in fine corn meal. On a hot day wont stick together. Have never used a filler. With these babies you dont need a filler.
DL
Semper Fi
For my brother Marines and men in arms, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

 

[nick_1]

Sorry but thats an opinion. My observation was a repeatable scientific experiment. Do you get a chain fire every time ? No but every time I got the chain fire it was without lube and over charged cylinders. hammer the balls in with a mallet. never once chain fired with lube. !858 Remington. I suspect the top strap concentrates the flash around the cylinder mouths. thats an opinion. slow motion video would be a good way to see what was happening for real. I strongly believe that the nipple thing is an old wives tale. If it was loose caps everyone who loaded 6 cylinders and only put 5 caps on for safety would have had chain fires.

 

[BadDaditood]

Does anyone have advices for lubrication except beewax? Could i use only crisco for example without beewax? What more alternatives do i have?

You can use candle wax, melt it and add olive oil until you like the thickness.
Paraffin wax is petroleum based, beeswax is organic.
Are there no beekeepers in Sweden?
Honey and wax from a very useful insect!!
Taks honungsbi !!!

 

[BadDaditood]

As for measuring cylinder capacity I just fill one with filler, then pour it into an adjustable powder measure and see what it says.
For simplicity let’s say 50 grains by volume.
Next I empty the measure into another empty container, roll a pistol ball into the measure and pour the filler back into the measure, discarding the excess filler.
Now I pour everything into the empty container, take the ball out and measure the remaining filler, let’s say 34 grains.
That’s the volume the cylinder holds under the ball.
I’ve made scoops out of pistol brass, 17 grains is a mild load and I can use the same scoop for powder and filler.

 

[Major Dorman]

Always use yellow cornmeal.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm going with the "spilled powder on the cylinder face" theory, another member posted a detailed write up with pics a little while ago and it made perfect sense

Also, are more of these chain fires with Pyrodex, or 777 than black powder? .44 "medium frame" guns vs guns like Dragoons with more meat between chambers , or .36's?

So many variables

 

[BadDaditood]

I prefer cream O wheat- I’ve tried corn meal, grits and maltOmeal but cream of wheat smells the best.
On competition days I like to use bacon grease over the balls, distracts the other guys and makes them hungry ;-)

 

[BadDaditood]

I'm going with the "spilled powder on the cylinder face" theory, another member posted a detailed write up with pics a little while ago and it made perfect sense

Also, are more of these chain fires with Pyrodex, or 777 than black powder? .44 "medium frame" guns vs guns like Dragoons with more meat between chambers , or .36's?

So many variables

With all the ill-fitting caps on import repros It’s certainly possible to get a chain fire from the nipples but I’m thinking the majority of chain fires come from the cylinder mouth.
Think of a flintlock- it’s not the flash in the pan but the heat from it that sets off the main charge.
There is a LOT of heat at the cylinder face every shot.
Conicals, wads, fillers all put main charge further back from the cylinder mouth.
A round ball on top of loose powder puts the powder much closer to the opening.
A tight fit that shaved a ring of lead increases the distance the heat must travel to ignite main charge.
Now with a loose fitting ball there’s very little insulation from all that heat. A little grease might stop a chainfire, until the first shot melts it all away.
Add in some loose powder on top of a loose ball, with or without crisco and that seems like a recipe for chainfires.
I’m speaking of black powder, I think the subs have a higher flash point?
(Not my Walker pic, not sure where I got it, maybe this forum. If it’s your photo, thanx! The check’s in the mail)

 

[TreeMan]

Ive shot my revolvers at least twice a week for decades. I have a range in my front yard. I use cream of wheat for target loads. I also load my Ruger old army with full loads frequently. I’ve never used grease over the balls and I’ve never had a chain fire. Tight fitting balls that shave a ring, tight caps and spin the cylinder before firing wiping the face of it with my thumb. Maybe I’ll learn my lesson one of these days.

 

[Crypt0manic]

Guys keep saying its just the caps and I am sorry but I have actual experience with multiple chain fires and it was NEVER the caps it was always no grease and max loads of real BP. the reason I know its the only times it would chain fire is when I forgot the grease. same loads and no chain fire with grease. load it up again and skip the grease on purpose and chain fire. I have never had a chain fire with normal loads regardless of grease or not but if you fill the cylinders all the way with real BP and ram a ball in there just enough to get it to turn if you don't use grease it will probably chain fire.

What do you mean with max loads? I use 25 grains for conicals with black powder and a conical.

 

[Crypt0manic]

You can use candle wax, melt it and add olive oil until you like the thickness.
Paraffin wax is petroleum based, beeswax is organic.
Are there no beekeepers in Sweden?
Honey and wax from a very useful insect!!
Taks honungsbi !!!

There is! i will try to find one around me! I didn't know you can use simple candle wax? Does that lube as good as beewax or it's not slaightly as good? Thank you. That was interesting because that's stuff you always have at home mostly. I'm wondering to try that out because then i would only have to go to closest store then i have everything needed there. Of course there are some beekeepers in sweden but i don't know where. I could order on the internet but i hate ordering stuff so i rather wanna use things that are easy to get and fast and handy...so the candle wax one was very interesting if it does work as good for sealing.

 

[Crypt0manic]

Ive shot my revolvers at least twice a week for decades. I have a range in my front yard. I use cream of wheat for target loads. I also load my Ruger old army with full loads frequently. I’ve never used grease over the balls and I’ve never had a chain fire. Tight fitting balls that shave a ring, tight caps and spin the cylinder before firing wiping the face of it with my thumb. Maybe I’ll learn my lesson one of these days.

Thank you and beautiful guns!

 

[Crypt0manic]

I personally always use a lubed felt wad under my bullets or balls. If i want it loaded for a long time I put a thin card under the felt to keep oils from seaping into powder charge. My standard lube is beeswax, parrafin, and olive oil. Some times i put a little lanolin in it. I have even made wads with paper towels. Melt the lube, soak the strips of paper towels, let dry, use punch to cut out wads. They tend to stick together so i tumble in fine corn meal. On a hot day wont stick together. Have never used a filler. With these babies you dont need a filler.
DL
Semper Fi
For my brother Marines and men in arms, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Nice man thanks for information! My goal kinda is making cartridges that are ready to just get pressed down into chambers and shot without chainfire. Even tho i don't need to do that all the time.

I think it would be harder making with lubed wads wouldn't it? And what's these hollow point bullets called? Never seen any like these for black powder guns.

 

[Crypt0manic]

Always use yellow cornmeal.

Yes i use yellow powder form cornmeal. Thank you!

 

[Crypt0manic]

Ive shot my revolvers at least twice a week for decades. I have a range in my front yard. I use cream of wheat for target loads. I also load my Ruger old army with full loads frequently. I’ve never used grease over the balls and I’ve never had a chain fire. Tight fitting balls that shave a ring, tight caps and spin the cylinder before firing wiping the face of it with my thumb. Maybe I’ll learn my lesson one of these days.

What's your chamber and ball or conical diameters? I heard from a guy these lee conicals aren't supposed to shave a ring, not sure how true it is. They seat really well tho i would say. Especially compared to the .454 balls i tried before. My guns chambers might be .457

 

[Crypt0manic]

With all the ill-fitting caps on import repros It’s certainly possible to get a chain fire from the nipples but I’m thinking the majority of chain fires come from the cylinder mouth.
Think of a flintlock- it’s not the flash in the pan but the heat from it that sets off the main charge.
There is a LOT of heat at the cylinder face every shot.
Conicals, wads, fillers all put main charge further back from the cylinder mouth.
A round ball on top of loose powder puts the powder much closer to the opening.
A tight fit that shaved a ring of lead increases the distance the heat must travel to ignite main charge.
Now with a loose fitting ball there’s very little insulation from all that heat. A little grease might stop a chainfire, until the first shot melts it all away.
Add in some loose powder on top of a loose ball, with or without crisco and that seems like a recipe for chainfires.
I’m speaking of black powder, I think the subs have a higher flash point?
(Not my Walker pic, not sure where I got it, maybe this forum. If it’s your photo, thanx! The check’s in the mail)

I think anything in between the bullet and the powder might help a bit. I mean it's harder for heat to pass by if it's a conical that seats well and a bunch behind like corn meal, wheat cream, a wad or whatever then only a loosen ball so i think that's correct. Not sure about the flash point of substitutes but i shoot black powder since i don't like use of substitutes in original guns. I got some pyrodex RS tho. I think they burn slower so might not be as hard on original guns as pyrodex P. That's just a guess so i'm not sure. But i will try to add as much corn meal possible in cartridges in case. Probably it does something at least....my loads are 25 grains of holy black with a .456 lee 220 grains conical. Might seal better then a ball. My conicals don't shave a ring but i feel like they seat pretty okay and Adding some lube to that i should be pretty safe i guess. That might be because they're chambered in .457 and the conical .456.

 

[Crypt0manic]

With all the ill-fitting caps on import repros It’s certainly possible to get a chain fire from the nipples but I’m thinking the majority of chain fires come from the cylinder mouth.
Think of a flintlock- it’s not the flash in the pan but the heat from it that sets off the main charge.
There is a LOT of heat at the cylinder face every shot.
Conicals, wads, fillers all put main charge further back from the cylinder mouth.
A round ball on top of loose powder puts the powder much closer to the opening.
A tight fit that shaved a ring of lead increases the distance the heat must travel to ignite main charge.
Now with a loose fitting ball there’s very little insulation from all that heat. A little grease might stop a chainfire, until the first shot melts it all away.
Add in some loose powder on top of a loose ball, with or without crisco and that seems like a recipe for chainfires.
I’m speaking of black powder, I think the subs have a higher flash point?
(Not my Walker pic, not sure where I got it, maybe this forum. If it’s your photo, thanx! The check’s in the mail)

Here i found it

There is also another post about the flash points of substitutes here

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/ignition-temperatures.44590/

 

[TreeMan]

What's your chamber and ball or conical diameters? I heard from a guy these lee conicals aren't supposed to shave a ring, not sure how true it is. They seat really well tho i would say. Especially compared to the .454 balls i tried before. My guns chambers might be .457

I mold a .457 ball for everything. I’ve tried concicals over the years and in my experience they are a waste of powder and lead. Round balls are much more accurate and have less loading issues.

 

[Crypt0manic]

I mold a .457 ball for everything. I’ve tried concicals over the years and in my experience they are a waste of powder and lead. Round balls are much more accurate and have less loading issues.

I see! what's the chamber size?

 

[TreeMan]

I see! what's the chamber size?

Never measured them. I’ve never seen a chamber that wouldn’t shave a ring on a .457 so never felt the need to measure.