Whats so great about real black powder?

[taylorh]

Where I live all I have available locally is pyrodex. My understanding is that pyrodex is like black powder in most respects except that its cleaner, a little less smokey, and has a higher ignition temperature. These all sound like positives to me. What am I missing out on? And if I were to switch to BP what brand should I choose?
Taylor in Texas

 

[spotlink]

Don't have much use for that stuff.

Use real blackpowder Swiss FF for everything.

 

[taylorh]

But why?

 

[Halftail]

What so great about real Black Powder?It goes off (Bang)!!!Every time. :hmm:
A friend and I made a few novelty targets consisting of empty Cap tins with a 1/2 dozen caps glued in place in the bottom.The tin was then filled up with real bp and an equal amount filled with Pyrodex.We then shot at these with our muzzleloaders.The ones with BP went Boom with fire and smoke and the ones with Pyrodex didn't.
I really like Goex Brand Black Powder.

 

[roundball]

Where I live all I have available locally is pyrodex. My understanding is that pyrodex is like black powder in most respects except that its cleaner, a little less smokey, and has a higher ignition temperature. These all sound like positives to me. What am I missing out on? And if I were to switch to BP what brand should I choose?
Taylor in Texas

Taylor, I used Pyrodex for several years with caplocks and am very familiar with it, it's properties, stengths/weaknesses, etc...I thought it did well for me, thought it was accurate, and using Natural Lube 1000 as I did (and do) fouling was not an issue. (and muzzleloaders have to be cleaned up thoroughly no matter what is used)

Then I switched to Flintlocks and had to use real BP...settled on Goex, and found it to be superior to Pyrodex in every way...very clean, ignition is instantaneous, and it's very accurate...I then rezeroed all my caplocks with Goex.

My advice would be to find or mail-order some Goex 3F...if you try a can of it, I predict you won't go back to Pyrodex.
Plus, I've seen Pyrodex selling in the $15-18/Lb range at Walmarts...Goex is little more than half that when bought in bulk...while it's a lot of $$ to lay out at once, a 25lb case of Goex delivered to your door from a Goex distributor is $10.25/Lb...and then you can shoot for a long time at a very reasonable price.
:thumbsup:

 

Taylor, if Pyrodex is all you can get, by all means shoot it. But I like Goex and have been shooting it for 35 years with very little experimentation. I tried a few shots of Pyro several years ago at the range where a guy was voluntarily trying to sell me on the stuff. I didn't care for the absence of instantaneous ignition I have always gotten with Goex. The real black powder is better because it IS real. :grin:
White smoke and it stinks when ya pull the trigger. I hope you can get your hands on some and give it a try some day. :thumbsup:

 

[marwat06]

I believe that the greatest difference would be noticed if you were shooting Flintlocks (I don't have one just going by what I have read and seen). I shoot real BP for several reasons: I buy in bulk, 10 lbs, and it is cheaper than Pyrodex, I find that real BP is less messy than Pyrodex (shooting BP I don't have to use a nipple pick to break up the crud that forms with Pyrodex), just using water and soap I have no problems with clean ups.

 

[Old Ironsights]

Where I live all I have available locally is pyrodex. My understanding is that pyrodex is like black powder in most respects except that its cleaner, a little less smokey, and has a higher ignition temperature. These all sound like positives to me. What am I missing out on? And if I were to switch to BP what brand should I choose?
Taylor in Texas

Well, rather than listen to all of the advice of people who have never shot anything but black, you could always listen to a "convert" like me. :v

I shoot and have shot both Inline and Side Locks. Pyrodex and other such substitutes work well in inlines, but only marginally in Sidelocks, and nearly not at all in Flintlocks.

Why? All the Substitutes have a much higher required ignition temperature than real Black, and there is an awful long flame path in a sidelock from cap (#11s especially) to chamber. Even in my Inline Pistol that uses a #11 cap, I occasionally get a failure to fire with Substitutes.

As for Cleanup, I believed the Hype about "Water only Cleanup" too. Well, it is essentially true, but low and behold, it is also true for real BP.

So here is where I am on the issue:

Currently:
I shoot 3F BP in my sidelocks.
I shoot either 3F 777 ot 4F BP in my Ruger Old Army and Traditions BuckHunter pistol.
I shoot Substitutes in my Mossberg Inline barrel

and I shoot 3F BP in my Flinter.

When I run out of Substitutes, I will likely not buy any more unless I find one brand or another works particularly well in my .357 cartridges.

At almost double the money per pound, why buy substitutes?

 

[john12865]

Pyrodex is junk. Short simple and sweet. BP cleans up just as easy, ignites faster and is more dependable then Pyrodex.
To sell BP you have to have a Federal license. To sell pyrodex, you don't. So gun shops out right lie about the advantages of the fake powders because they don't have the BP license.
I've shot pyrodex and it is a joke when compaired to the real stuff. :rotf:
So that's the truth of the matter.
Once you go Black, there's no going back to the :bull: powders.

 

[bioprof]

I used Pyrodex in a custom-made percussion rifle and had nothing but problems. It would fire about 2 or 3 times and then I would get nothing but misfires. The powder was fine, so I tried to blame the percussion caps, then thought the rifle was a lemon. Tried Goex and have never had a misfire since.

I recently sighted in a flintlock that I built, and fired 15 shots with Goex without using a vent pick or wiping the bore. It fired almost instanteously every time. I bet that I couldn't have gotten more than 2 shots without a misfire with a blackpowder substitute.

I guess I had to learn the hard way.

 

[jtmattison]

Where I live all I have available locally is pyrodex. My understanding is that pyrodex is like black powder in most respects except that its cleaner, a little less smokey, and has a higher ignition temperature. These all sound like positives to me. What am I missing out on? And if I were to switch to BP what brand should I choose?
Taylor in Texas

My two cents:

I don't think it is cleaner than BP.
Less smoke takes some of the fun out of it.
Higher ignition temp means it's harder to ignite than BP.

I once used Pyrodex but since I changed to BP I will never go back.

BP ignites flawlessly every time.
BP makes nice smoke.
BP makes my rifles more accurate.
BP cleans up easy.

BP is the only way to go IMO.

HD

 

[robinghewitt]

I only tried Pyrodex once so I'm no expert. Someone said, "Here, try this" so I did and there was an appreciable delay between cap and load firing. He didn't like it either, smelt funny to :thumbsup:

 

[Don]

I have always used pyrodex in my pistols and rifles until I got into BP Derringers and got too many hang fires. Then I got my hands on some 3f Goex and the hang fires went away. When pyro won't work well I'll use goex. However, Pyro has some real advantages. It's a lot less fouling than BP. I used Goex 2f in a rifle once and I'll never do it again. Went to swab the barrel after two shots and got the ram rod stuck. This never happened to me with Pyrodex. I had to use my Co2 discharger to get my ram rod out. Pyrodex also gives better velocities when measured by volume compared to BP. Pyrodex works well in my Cap and ball revolvers as well. I'll continue to use pyrodex and BP both.

Don

 

[Dave_B]

I am fairly new to muzzleloaders and I use both Pyrodex RS as well as 3F and 2F black powder.
My observations:

The Pyrodex is more expensive, I pay $18.95 a lb. but you get more shots per lb. I mail order BP and even after the hazmat fee, it's cheaper if you order 4 lb. or more.

The higher ignition temperature of Pyrodex causes me to have many misfires, I haven't had any (so far) with BP.

BP has more smoke and odor than Pyrodex - I like the smoke.

Pyrodex and BP foul about the same in my rifles. If loading gets a bit more difficult, I run a wet patch down the bore - usually every 5 or 5 shots or so.

BP seems a bit easier to clean than Pyrodex. It smells worse, but the fouing is softer. I use hot water and a dish washer detergent pellet. It only takes me about 10 minutes to clean and oil two rifles.

as usual, YMMV
Dave

 

[chuck-ia]

I think a lot of people that use substitutes just aren't into the traditional side of muzzleloading, and may not take it that seriously. Most will say the subs. are cheaper and easier to get. I ordered a case of goex last year and it cost me a little over 10.00 a pound shipped to my house. Like has been said over and over, split up a case between buddy's if you don't want a whole case. As far as comparing the subs. to, say goex, really no comparison at all. I just don't understand why a person would use a substitute in the first place, unless of course you weren't shooting a real muzzleloader. By real muzzleloader I mean trad. style caplock or flintlock, (just to make it clear). I think some places you can even order 5 lbs. of black powder. Don't buy into the manure that with subs. you don't have to clean either. Do yourself a favor and order some of the real stuff. flinch

 

[Landngroove]

What I like about real Goex Black Powder is the consistancy. Consistant ignition. Consistant velocity. Consistant accuracy. You won't find these traits in Pyrodex. This can also be said about some of the other subs. ( I have not tried them all) I do not think that Pyrodex is less fouling than real BP. Clean up is the same. Some posters on this forum have said Pyrodex is more corrosive than real BP, but I do not know this for sure. What I remember about using Pyrodex, was will it go off right away, or will it hang fire. ( I used Pyrodex in the past, but no longer)I did not like feeling this way in hunting situations. For me Goex is the way to go. I use both FFFG, and FFG, in my different ML's. Accept No Substitutes! :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

As a follow-up thought...I started using Pyrodex in '89, started using Goex in '99.....and the only complaint I have about Goex is that I didn't start using it 10 years earlier!
:thumbsup:

 

[taylorh]

Sounds like I'm going to have to get a hold of some of the real stuff and give it a try. I have to admit though, I've been shooting black powder for two years now and I have never had a misfire in my TC Renegade using pyrodex. Never, not once. Only once did I have a hangfire after having fired 25+ shots through a fould barrel. It is a caplock, and I use CCI caps. They pop louder than the Remington caps.
Reguards,
Taylor in Texas

 

[barebackjack]

Dont take this for gospel, but.....

I am another that has to drive 4 hours to get real BP. ITS WORTH THE DRIVE!!!!!!!

Ive only been shooting a short time, but I can notice ignition time is faster with BP.

And I like the smoke. :grin: :grin: :grin:

I think Goex cleans up better than pyro also.

Boone

 

[Halftail]

Oh Yeah,
I forgot to mention that I love the smell of Real BP.The smell of Ballistoll also has a fond place in my heart. :hmm: