Which Brown Bess?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Looking to get a Brown Bess for fun shooting and just for the experience and to have one. Very historic and cool.

Are the Pedersolis good? I see it's either that, an Indian gun, or a real original. Since I plan to shoot it a lot I would be nervous about causing wear and parts breakage on a historic antique, plus the prices for those in shooting condition are a lot higher than the repros.

I have heard the Pedersolis are no balanced well and do not feel like a real Brown Bess in hand but that they are well made. I have heard some not so great things about the Indian guns, and they are half the cost of the Pedersoli.

Any advice from you musket people? Thanks!

 

[trent/OH]

I like my Japanese made Bess (built around the American Bicentennial). The barrel is a little thinner than originals and Pedersoli's, so I wouldn't recommend it for bayonette charges. And the trigger pull was very severe before I had it worked on. But it does everything a Brown Bess is supposed to do accuracy wise, and it's reliability is fantastic.

They do take a lot of powder, and a LOT of lead.

 

[Artificer]

I bought my first Pedersoli Bess (Carbine) back in the early/mid 1970's. I shot a LOT of live rounds through that gun in competition and some blank rounds reenacting. The only reason I don't still have that gun is because I had to sell it to buy a full length Pedersoli Bess around the turn of this century, so I could reenact as a Private Soldier in the 42nd RHR (The Black Watch). I was very much pleased with both Bess's.

The Pedersoli is not a completely authentic copy of a Brown Bess Short Land Pattern Musket, but it is a good gun AND is allowed at every FIW and AWI event that I know of or ever heard of. In case you wonder how to make it more authentic, I highly recommend the superb thread by Dave Person down in the gunsmithing section.

Gus

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I bought my first Pedersoli Bess (Carbine) back in the early/mid 1970's. I shot a LOT of live rounds through that gun in competition and some blank rounds reenacting. The only reason I don't still have that gun is because I had to sell it to buy a full length Pedersoli Bess around the turn of this century, so I could reenact as a Private Soldier in the 42nd RHR (The Black Watch). I was very much pleased with both Bess's.

The Pedersoli is not a completely authentic copy of a Brown Bess Short Land Pattern Musket, but it is a good gun AND is allowed at every FIW and AWI event that I know of or ever heard of. In case you wonder how to make it more authentic, I highly recommend the superb thread by Dave Person down in the gunsmithing section.

Gus

What thread is that? I couldn't find what you were referencing.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I only tried an Indian product once, never again!

Several Pedersoli products have been in my hands and they are fine.
My short Bess can be seen in my hunting photos.

B.

 

[Artificer]

Here you go:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...t/1636180/hl/brown+bess/fromsearch/1/#1636180

From this point above scroll up to the Top of the thread and you have it all.
Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Looking to get a Brown Bess for fun shooting and just for the experience and to have one. Very historic and cool.

If that's the criteria, and you didn't mention cost, then I'd say the Pedersoli Short Land Pattern musket aka Bess is a very good choice.

BTW the Pedersoli isn't "bad" when it comes to authenticity, it's just "not very good" in appearance for certain historic conflicts, and certain units in those conflicts. For example, it doesn't "fit" for F&I and it doesn't "fit" for American Militia in the AWI, because it was the state-of-the-art and brand new for the AWI. So couldn't be at the F&I and American Militia would have had a much older, used model of the Bess. These are cosmetic objections.

With the Pedersoli....,
You get a very reliable, working musket
Replacement parts are interchangeable
You can develop some accurate loads for hunting large game
You can also shoot shot from it.
While it may not have the same balance as an antique that you might one day handle..., it won't be as heavy as an Indian musket, and you normally can't shoot the antiques.
While the Pedersoli Bess might not be "right" at every event in North America, you won't be turned away or even chided at any of those events, for having one.

The downside is cost. Unfortunately the Indian guns and the occasional used Bess, either Italian or Japanese, price around $650 - $750. So if you suddenly want to sell it off, you aren't going to get nearly the SRP that you paid, unless you hold it for a long time.

I've had good results buying from one importer of Indian made Bess. Mine shoot very well. It's also true that I've seen others from different importers that were not nearly as well finished.

I hope this helps you in your choosing.

LD

 

[Wes/Tex]

The Pedersoli, as mentioned above, is a good gun if not entirely historically accurate. You could make it look closer with some minor hand work but that's a personal thing. The Indian made guns are the only other commercial option. The better ones are usable but look 'clunky' to me. There are exacting copies made and places like TOTW handle them but be prepared to pay the price...I'm talking $2,000 and up. If you want a good, usable Bess then the Pedersoli is probably the best bet.

 

[BrownBear]

...for fun shooting and just for the experience and to have one.

With those criteria, I'd sure look for one of the Pedersoli Bess carbines. The shorter barrel improves balance and weight immensely, turning it into a very credible field gun without regard for anything the reenactors will say about it.

I have one dating back very early in Pedersoli's production and it balances so well I use it mostly for wingshooting with shot. That's right- wingshooting both waterfowl and upland birds (ptarmigan). Best of all for me and simplicity of field use, the big ole pan has no qualms about using the same powder for prime as your main charge. I simply can't tell the difference in ignition time or reliability.

Haven't shot a lot of round ball with it as a result, but it sure wants to shoot well. If I had my act together for smooth bore round balling, I bet it would shine lots better than I can do with it right now.

 

[mhb]

Having recently acquired a Pedersoli Short Land Pattern musket (after consultation with the members of the forum in an earlier thread), I can say that I am very pleased with it! I should have reported on it sooner, but was diverted, for a bit.
I bought the musket from Cabela's, which may still have them on sale (or at least, at a less-than-retail price), and it came through in perfect shape.
I believe, from examination, that this example does not need the woodwork 'trimmed' to the extent that the specimen discussed in the referenced thread did, and the metal work is more than acceptable.
I felt it necessary to do only a minimum of adjustment work to the lock: the threads in the **** for the jaw screw needed to be cleaned-up a bit - one pass through with an 8x1.25mm tap did that. The trigger pull was (much!) lighter than that of my original India Pattern, but was very long and creepy - I drilled and tapped the tumbler for a limit screw, which was then filed to permit full sear engagement, but with a much shorter and better trigger pull.
The lock accepts regular musket flints happily, and sparks fit to set the world on fire.
It looks good, works perfectly, and shoots very accurately. I'm happy with the Pedersoli Bess, and think you would be, too.

mhb - MIke

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Here you go:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...t/1636180/hl/brown+bess/fromsearch/1/#1636180

From this point above scroll up to the Top of the thread and you have it all.
Gus

I continue to be amazed and humbled by the knowledge posted here. Thank you, great info!! I would seriously consider that if I do get the Pedersoli.

I am moving to Las Vegas in not more than a month. There, one can go out and legally shoot in the desert for free. This will make shooting black powder arms (and in fact all arms) much, MUCH more convenient for me as I live in town and the only outdoor range near me is open but two weekends per months, and it always seems as if I am busy those two weekends.

It sounds as if this Pedersoli gun would be a good choice. I have one of their pistols, a Harpers Ferry percussion model, and it is fantastic. I have shot the heck out of that one and it never fails to fire and is amazingly accurate even with its smooth bore.

 

[willowbilly]

Don't discount the Miroku made Bess. they are very well made and are almost as nice as the Pedersoli Bess.

The main difference is the wood. Pedersoli is walnut and the Miroku is a lighter wood of some kind. I sanded and dyed mine darker and now the wood looks almost like the Pedersoli Bess.

I have both and they both function flawlessly.

I bought them through Gun Broker and paid around $800 ea, (including shipping to AK). Both were in near new condition. I don't think either was fired. There was evidence of a few flint strikes on the frizzen. They both came with bayonet and sling.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes, the funny thing is that in 1994, when I "got into" flintlocks, folks laughed at the Japanese Bess. NOW they are sought after. Excellent steel in the barrels IF they are well cared for. The problem is finding one. I've refurbished several in the past few years for others who just acquired them from reenactors, often from estate sales.

LD

 

[Artificer]

The Miroku Bess's do have good steel in them, but a trigger job and some lock work is almost mandatory to shoot the gun at it's best. They are often also quite crude compared to the Pedersoli, but generally they are a serviceable musket. Had to refit the frizzen to the pan on more than a few of them, as well.

However, spare parts for the Japanese Bess's were used up years ago. Have heard of some folks making replacement parts, but for the most part when the musket need's fixed, it is going to have to be custom work done on them and beyond the range of the average person.

Pedersoli spare parts are not cheap by any means, but at least they are available.

Gus

 

[robinghewitt]

For the experience, historic and cool, I'd go for the original. If you want to hit what you're aiming at don't.

I bought a rusty old Bess with patched woodwork and a worn out touch hole. I stripped off the layers of polyurethane varnish to expose all bits that weren't quite right, welded the touch hole shut and drilled a new one. I took it to a target range and it was useless.

I love it to bits :idunno:

 

[Many Klatch]

I bought a well used Pedersoli Bess Carbine back in the early 90's. I have shot it a lot every year since. I lightened the trigger pull a bit and fiddled with the sighting.

This year the touch hole finally got too big so I had a touch hole liner installed.

The gun is accurate enough to occasionally beat rifles in a gong shoot. It is almost unbreakable. The only downside to a Bess is that it takes one pound of lead to make 11 ball. If you have a good cheap source of lead and powder then they are a barrel of fun.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Very cool.

Any idea how much a shootable original Bess would be?

 

[robinghewitt]

I got mine complete with bayonet for £650 a few years ago. It doesn't have any regimental markings, rack numbers or fancy stuff. It has a few chips and obviously rusted at some point, doesn't worry me a bit...

 

[Artificer]

Squire Robin,

Was that price with or without VAT? Also, what Pattern Model is your Brown Bess?

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

IF you don't mind it with modern made repro stock and having to do some restoration yourself, in a 3rd model East India Company Bess..., you could go as low as $1095.00 although you may not get a serviceable barrel. You could go as high as $2695.00 for a "Tower" marked lock on the 3rd Model, and may have a better chance the barrel is shootable.

LD