Will a flintlock stop a bear?

[rabjr]

Lewis and Clark recorded many incounters with Grizzlies and many rounds to stop them. The best thing I guess at close range throw the rifle at the Bear, run like hell and jump off the Cliff into the river, head first - swim a half a mile under water. Get out and call a Taxi- one last thing don't forget the toilet paper- you will need a bunch of it- just my input-The Great Pinyone.

Yes they did, they also has orders no single man was to shoot one. Having seen how many balls one can absorb, they were to leave them alone or hunt them with more than one man.

 

[hanshi]

A grizzly bear can also absorb-and there are many documented instances of this-multiple rounds from .375s, .338s, etc, and still wreck havoc on tender primate bodies. So it stands to reason that it's a crap shoot with your single prb regardless of caliber. A brain/central nervous system hit is the only way to guarantee a one shot stop. This is also the least likely shot one would be able to make. In other words, don't tackle one 'mano a mano'.

Round ball guns have killing power all out of proportion to their paper ballistics. But ol' grizz does too.

 

[Zoar]

hahahahaaaaaaaaaa, I like that Killing Power To Killing Power Ratio rationale! Grizzly scores high and a brain shot scores high and shoulder breaking shot scores high, too, but no one can say for sure which ratio will win out in any given encounter. But as the first poster asked--"Will a flintlock stop a bear?" Methinks the answer is "yes", and if you do not hit em right, then "no". But in fact that would be rather true with any gun, even a 500 Nitro.

 

[JCW]

I'm thinking you'll be in deep poo If you are up close and personal with a griz, brown, or even a large p.o.'d blackie intent on chewing on you. By close I'm talking within 30 feet or so. My own first hand experience with bear killing is with blackies. I have killed one with a .54 prb. over 90 gr. 3F. I was in a stand and above the bear distance was about 20 yds. or so. He ran off and dies about 50 yds further out. Good lung shot with broken ribs. Bear wasn't all that big 185#. I have also shot blackies with a 12 ga. rifled slug and 30/30. The 12 ga. killed the quickest. the guy that I go bear hunting with lived both in central B.C. and AK. He's the one that turned me onto the 12 ga. for bear. From his experience he told me to take out the front shoulders of a charging or threatening bear. He will still probably get to you unless you can keep your cool and get both shoulders. I honestly have no idea if I would be calm enough to do this. Probably just crap my drawers while shucking unfired shells on the ground. Did you notice that no where did I say I'd do a griz/brownie with a flintlock, cap gun or any other single shot?

 

[BrownBear]

From his experience he told me to take out the front shoulders of a charging or threatening bear. He will still probably get to you unless you can keep your cool and get both shoulders.

Speaking as one who's had more than his fair share of charges from Kodiak brownies, there's some real deep seated fallacy in that. When they're charging you, it's pointy end first. The shoulders are to either side of center of mass, and shooting for a shoulder is going to pile your poo higher and deeper. Basically all you see is face and hump, with a blur of pumping feet below it all.

From the wardens I've talked to investigating DLP's, shoulder shots are a sure sign that the bear was sideways to you and not threatening. Lots of citations and gun confiscations have resulted in the wake of shoulder shots.

BTW- DLP is Alaska-speak for an emergency kill- Defense of Life and Property. It's only legal if you can prove you were threatened. Shoulder shoot a "charging" Alaskan bear if you can possibly manage to see a shoulder, but be ready to pay a fine and kiss your gun goodbye.

 

[Darkgael]

Throughout this discussion there has been very free use of the words "kill" and "stop". Kill means - well, you know what it means. My understanding of the term "stop" when it is used in relation to hunting dangerous game is that the animal is "stopped" here and now, very definitely. It does NOT get to you. It does not continue. It gets knocked down, flipped over and it dies.
Will a run of the mill muzzleloader do that? Not many guns of any kind will do that. Some will, though,and some are muzzleloaders but they are not run of the mill pieces at all.
Pete

 

[paulvallandigham]

Only a blow to the central nervous system is going to put any animal down right NOW. It can be done with any gun, provided the shooter holds his nerve under attack, and knows how his gun shoots. Those are big " Ifs". :shocked2: :hatsoff:

 

[M Kuhn]

Dan[/quote]
lol,,,,,i have bears (black) in my yard, so i have lots of time to watch and study them, and trust me one dog is enough to scare them off
[/quote] They hunt Mt Lions with dogs in my area and while it is illegal to hunt bears with dogs here many bears do end up treed by dogs while running lions, Even though they don't shoot them the bears associate dogs with humans and danger and will avoid dogs when they see one. I have watched my neighbors dog run a bear right out of his yard pulling big tufts of fur out of his rear end, My dog is aggressive enough that she would likely distract a bear long enough for me to either get a shot off or vacate the area, I hate to say it but when it comes right down to the dog or myself I am gonna miss my dog. I'd rather have her run interference for me, I know that's a terrible thing to say but there are lots of bears in my area.

 

[Zoar]

Indeed it is mighty amusing to see how the original posit of the thread has morphed into many things.... the question was so simple--"Will a flintlock stop a bear?" and since that first post somehow it seems it has become many things including several posts on the man killing habits of grizzlies, browns, etc. It has been fun reading guys and please do not take this as criticism I am thoroughly enjoying this thread in part I think because of its many twists and turns and interpretations of that first post, and have gained from reading it! :thumbsup:

So, just one minor observation more. As someone who owns a double rifle for dangerous game hunting situations, I would certainly prefer a double to a single in any dangerous game country. That said the original poster just said flintlock... There are double barrel flintlocks. In fact, I plan to build one within the next year.

All said though this has been a fascinating thread so far and I encourage more discussion and what I typed in this post is just meant to draw attention to the high entertainment the initial question has provided. :grin:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

from what I've read at least some of the western frontiersmen used bait to draw bears in and shot them from a blind or higher-up stand so a good shot was presented that the hunter(s) had time to sight in on. for sure a good hit with a .70 something ball or 2 would do the bear in.
if a chargeing bear came on then getting a stopping shot off could be unlikely but not impossible, just hope there are 2 or more fellas with ready guns.

 

[M Kuhn]

Indeed it is mighty amusing to see how the original posit of the thread has morphed into many things.... the question was so simple--"Will a flintlock stop a bear?" and since that first post somehow it seems it has become many things including several posts on the man killing habits of grizzlies, browns, etc.

With many threads you are casting bread upon the water so to speak, You never know where the subject will end up. I personally like that myself.
Bears still have a very primal influence on most people and the subject stirs the emotions so it's not surprising the topic drifts a little off course. I forgot to add my 2 cents that yes a flintlock will kill a bear, A black bear quite easily, an irritated grizzly? I'm sure it would but probably not until he turned you into a pretzel. I have encountered many black bears and they really don't stress me but I have had 3 face to face encounters with Grizzlies (luckily they went the other way) I have a Brown Bess trade gun now since it's the biggest ball at 550 grains that I can find. It still doesn't feel like enough. I can't imagine facing an Alaskan Grizzly even with that, Lower 48 grizzlies are generally smaller though, still scary but smaller.
I watched a cop kill an aggressive black bear
with a 9mm semi auto once. It amazed me but he did kill it. Grizzlies are a whole different game.
I'd feel safe with a 50 on black bears but my 74 cal trade gun still seems puny against a grizzly. It may just be a mental thing but I really hope I never have to find out if it's enough gun.
I have had a grizzly within 2 feet of me face to face and my thoughts were more along the line of ballistic missile's or suitcase nuke's rather than muzzleloaders. Luckily that one just stared at me for what seemed like an hour but was probably only 15 or 20 seconds and he turned and trotted off in the other direction. All three of my Grizzly encounters were between 2 feet from almost stepping on one climbing over a log to about 5 and 10 yards, Way too close all three times for me to do anything if they had wanted to terminate me.

 

[Zoar]

Yeah, I saw a grizzly near the border of BC and suddenly understood "dinosaur".. they are massive and in a league of their own among North American creatures, yet if one was charging there are two options: Just stand there and let it get you or shoot for the face/head with whatever I had in my hands, flintlock or arrow or pointy stick. And all I can say is I sure hope it would stop him! hahaha

 

[ebiggs1]

I’ve kinda got hooked on the TV show “I Shouldn’t Be Alive.” Several of the episodes deal with bear attacks in the woods. Some of the people are hunters with high powdered rifles some are unarmed, The ones with high powdered rifles didn’t fair any better than the unarmed people.
That begs a question. Do you think a flintlock would stop a griz or brown bear with one shot? You are a deer hunter. I know there are extenuating circumstances involved but say you are surprised at close range and you have a .54 cal, or so, flintlock in your hands, are you lunch?

Actually the original thought to ponder and question was, you are surprised by a griz or brown bear AND you happen to have your trusty old flintlock by your side.
The folks on the TV show were not hunting bear but some were hunting (with modern rifles). One story involved a man and his son who were hunting with side lock muzzleloaders but they were the rescuers. I am sure shooting a bear from a stand when it is not aware you are there and one that is irritated by your presence is going to influence the situation. BTW, the bears, obliviously, killed none of the people from the TV show.
(There wouldn’t have been anyone to tell the tale if they did!)

To make matters worse in the story with the two muzzleloader hunters, it was raining! And I mean raining, hard.

 

[Zoar]

ebiggs---yes indeed you are right. I went back and reread that first post after relying on my diminishing memory on what the first post asked beyond the title. And the hypothetical question being will a flintlock stop a bear (charge or up close). Again, if the choices are to stand there and do nothing because someone posted on this forum that my trusty ole flintlock would NOT stop it, OR to aim for its face / brain (and specifically yes its eye) as it charged me, I would still opt for the second! hahahaha... Call it natural response or self preservation but I would still shoot it if it was charging at me and while shooting I would be hoping with every corpuscle of my being that I got lucky and the bullet did some serious stopping! And yes if i had my trusty 54 cal with me loaded up hot I would think I could stand a better than not chance that I could make that lucky "brain" shot and although it would have to be a very quick shot I would still aim, if possible. If I could not aim then I would POINT at its brain. And then flip the rifle around and be ready to smack it in the head as hard as I absolutely could. Head & eye shots till I could not see any more. One way or another I would TRY to MAKE my flintlock stop that bear! hahaha

 

[KHickam]

Well, If I ever decide to hunt animals in areas that Grizzly might encounter me (MT or AK) and he charges me - I will likely shoot at them, and really hope I hit them well, and hope it all turns out well.

But, I ain't going out to look for them. :thumbsup:

 

[Zoar]

HAHAHaaa...hahaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

I second that emotion... at least NOT without a double flintlock rifle and a two man back up team where each man with his own 470 Express or 500 Nitro double rifle.

 

[hotsparks]

Over on a "modern" pistol forum, the same question was asked about pistol rounds for "last stand" bear encounters. We have blacks down here, I've seen a grizzly at a safe distance in BC, but have never seen a brown. From the posts, the Alaskan brown makes even a grizzly look like a pet. Anyway, the conversation went about like this one, just substitute "xxx cal" pistol wherever we mention RB. Most "authorities" wouldn't want to face a PO'd brown with even a .454 Cascul.(I have a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 and it's impressive). One Gent carries a Freedom Arms in .45-70 and didn't seem to have any reservations, I wouldn't either. The point is, as others have said, hell, a .17 will kill with a properly placed shot, and a .454 won't if the shot goes awray. Remember that 150 years ago, hearty Alaskans hunted browns and grizzlys for meat, some must have done well and survived.

 

[Zonie]

"...hearty Alaskans hunted browns and grizzlys for meat, some must have done well and survived. "
-----------

The Hearty Alaskans or the bears?
:rotf:

 

[hotsparks]

LOL...Zonie....it was neck and neck

 

[vern faulkner]

It probably will if it's strapped to the bumper of a Freightliner. Vern