Will a flintlock stop a bear?

[Dphar]

Indeed it is mighty amusing to see how the original posit of the thread has morphed into many things.... the question was so simple--"Will a flintlock stop a bear?" and since that first post somehow it seems it has become many things including several posts on the man killing habits of grizzlies, browns, etc.

With many threads you are casting bread upon the water so to speak, You never know where the subject will end up. I personally like that myself.
Bears still have a very primal influence on most people and the subject stirs the emotions so it's not surprising the topic drifts a little off course. I forgot to add my 2 cents that yes a flintlock will kill a bear, A black bear quite easily, an irritated grizzly? I'm sure it would but probably not until he turned you into a pretzel. I have encountered many black bears and they really don't stress me but I have had 3 face to face encounters with Grizzlies (luckily they went the other way) I have a Brown Bess trade gun now since it's the biggest ball at 550 grains that I can find. It still doesn't feel like enough. I can't imagine facing an Alaskan Grizzly even with that, Lower 48 grizzlies are generally smaller though, still scary but smaller.
I watched a cop kill an aggressive black bear
with a 9mm semi auto once. It amazed me but he did kill it. Grizzlies are a whole different game.
I'd feel safe with a 50 on black bears but my 74 cal trade gun still seems puny against a grizzly. It may just be a mental thing but I really hope I never have to find out if it's enough gun.
I have had a grizzly within 2 feet of me face to face and my thoughts were more along the line of ballistic missile's or suitcase nuke's rather than muzzleloaders. Luckily that one just stared at me for what seemed like an hour but was probably only 15 or 20 seconds and he turned and trotted off in the other direction. All three of my Grizzly encounters were between 2 feet from almost stepping on one climbing over a log to about 5 and 10 yards, Way too close all three times for me to do anything if they had wanted to terminate me.

It depends on the flintlocks bore size. A 32 caliber is not very effective, a 54 is better but still pretty light. A ball weighing about twice with the 54 ball does is much more effective.
A RB in the .66-.75 diameter range is no popgun.
My rifle shooting a .662 ball a pretty effective weapon. For one shot its as good as anything I own probably close the the African "medium bore" modern guns. The ball size, 16 to the pound, was the lightest generally used for dangerous game according to Forsythe.
John Taylor killed African Elephant with a 10 bore smoothbore using 6 drams of powder as I recall. "13 good bulls" and several rhino. Said he never lost an animal he shot with it. This was in the 1930s when a supply of ammo for his rifles got misdirected. He was shooting hardened lead balls. He stated he would not like to face a charge with it, but for lung shots it was very effective.

I had intended to shoot a Gbear in AK with the 16 bore but the funding ran out by the time I got everything else in order.
Might still do it. My Dad is a resident and I can hunt without a guide as a result.
Forsythe tells us his 14 bore (.69 caliber) rifle with 5 drams of powder would drive a hard lead ball through an Indian Elephants head from side to side.
Once the ball size gets to about 1 ounce (.662) the round ball becomes a very serious big game projectile. By the time it reaches 8 bore it really is world class. 8-6-4 bore rifles were used extensively for the largest African game. I believe that in the past 10 years or so a hunter has killed Cape Buffalo with a pair of 8 bores he had made for Africa.
As Taylor pointed out the modern hunter tends to look down his nose at the ML with a RB but used right they are very very effective so long as their limitations known and the hunter shoots accordingly.
For an animal like a Gbear I would shoot hard alloy RBs from the 16 bore, better penetration and better bone breaking compared to pure lead.

Dan

 

[bioprof]

Now that we've settled one question, what if flintlocks were around in the Pleistocene? Would you be able to kill a Cave Bear?

 

[Dphar]

Now that we've settled one question, what if flintlocks were around in the Pleistocene? Would you be able to kill a Cave Bear?

Was he bigger than an Elephant?

Dan

 

[vern faulkner]

I doubt it if I would have even made through puberty. Would probably have ended up falling out of the south end of the north bound critter. :surrender: :surrender: Vern

 

[Zonie]

The original question was
"Will a flintlock stop a bear?"

The answer is:

Sometimes. It depends largely on the bear.

Some bears truly like Flintlocks and they will often stop to drool over them. I've heard they will spend hours telling anyone who'll listen how Flintlocks Rule and ever since Percussion guns were invented shooting has gone downhill.

Other bears prefer the later Percussion guns over flintlocks. A flintlock won't stop one of these bears although he may pause to deposit something that is often deposited in the woods on it.

"And, NOW, you know the rest of the story. :grin:

 

[vern faulkner]

Bioprof; Was the Cave Bear larger than the Short Faced Bear?? I wouldn't play with either one. Here in Pennsylvania we have a breeding population of the Greater Saber Toothed Cottontail. The rural farms are riddled with the remains of many a brave men that thought they were easily dispatched. I myself have been "treed" twice for attempting such foolishness. Vern

 

[Zoar]

Dan--Excellent post. It reminds me of one of the good posts over at Double Rifles or NitroExpress. Indeed if I was "hunting" brown bear or grizzly and "I had" to use flintlock, as stated above, first it would be a double barrel flinter. Second, the RB would definitely be a hardened lead ball (not just lead) and I probably would start at a .720 (12 bore) although I could readily move up to a .775 (10 bore)... Those brownies are huge and very nasty animals. And I agree with you I want heavy weight stopping power and 12 to 8 bore is the vicinity to be in.

I know a guy who who hunts with lead RB's in Africa. He hunts everything from Cape Buffalo (mean ugly critters usually shot at close range) to Lion and he uses a double barrel 10 gauge. Yes it is a modern breech load yet he uses HARDENED lead only and it makes a big difference.

 

[No Powder]

They take Bears with bows. Not sure about flint tipped arrows. :rotf: Although I'm sure the native Americans did. :hatsoff:

 

[Zoar]

Methinks tthe operative term there is "They take"... If I was going into the woods to HUNT a brownie or a grizzly and I was NOT up in a tree with a backup shooter with a 500 Nitro Express, "I" would not use a bow... "They can" try it, but not "me". If i'm walking around in Grizzly/Brown bear country with the intention of getting up close and shooting one, you bet I want more than ONE flintlock barrel and I want a big bore on those barrels. :grin:

 

[hanshi]

No, but he was meaner. :bow:

 

[DEWB]

Can you get a .375 H&H in a flintlock? :grin:

 

[nkbj]

Can you get a .375 H&H in a flintlock? :grin:

It would be fun to try!

 

[hanshi]

Now that you've posted that you KNOW somebody will try it. :shake: :rotf:

 

[DEWB]

I can't wait to see the pictures! :shocked2:

 

[M Kuhn]

Dan--Excellent post. It reminds me of one of the good posts over at Double Rifles or NitroExpress. Indeed if I was "hunting" brown bear or grizzly and "I had" to use flintlock, as stated above, first it would be a double barrel flinter. Second, the RB would definitely be a hardened lead ball (not just lead) and I probably would start at a .720 (12 bore) although I could readily move up to a .775 (10 bore)... Those brownies are huge and very nasty animals. And I agree with you I want heavy weight stopping power and 12 to 8 bore is the vicinity to be in.

I know a guy who who hunts with lead RB's in Africa. He hunts everything from Cape Buffalo (mean ugly critters usually shot at close range) to Lion and he uses a double barrel 10 gauge. Yes it is a modern breech load yet he uses HARDENED lead only and it makes a big difference.

What about wheel weight lead (from pre 1840 vehicles of course) I have a lot of wheel weights and they are harder than pure lead.

 

[nkbj]

Has anybody tried one of the .50cal flinters being sold now that are advertised as being good for 150 grains of powder and a conical?
At 7 lbs it sounds like as much of a magnumated rocker as anybody is liable to want until they start drawing hunts at Jurassic Park.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

They take Bears with bows. Not sure about flint tipped arrows. :rotf: Although I'm sure the native Americans did. :hatsoff:

yeah you're right they did but they set traps, snares and deadfalls for them too, and bait set out where they could rain arrows and spears down on the bears. they didn't take any chances.

 

[hanshi]

Those 150+ grainers with their zip guns? Well, anyone who really believes all the hype they hear/read comparing them to modern HP rifles will most likely believe and do anything. :haha:

 

[hanshi]

WW is harder than pure lead. I've tried both in my fowler and so far the load using WW metal is the most accurate and recoils more. I have to use a thin patch but by using an over powder card (home punched) it works out fine.

 

[Zoar]

MK--yes wheel weights are exactly what are used in many instances. Harder than standard lead is the direction to go and they do penetrate far deeper and result in more stopping power.