Wolves?

[KHickam]

Wolves are a disease that is infecting the whole north west. I understand that Idaho Fish and Game is down over 6 million dollars in revenue due to decreased sales of tags due to wolves. Non- residents do not want to buy tags that is simple fact. Our deer hunting is poor in most of the units south of the Salmon river. Our elk hunting is very poor everywhere north of I-84. I have seen what wolves will do with my own eyes. I hate wolves and long for the day we exterminate them for ever. I will be there with a call and a centerfire rifle. I took these pictures while I was deer hunting. I came over a hill and saw two wolves playing tug a war with this young and healthy buck. I wish there would have been a season that day for wolves. Ron

Wolves in Idaho isn't news - I heard them and saw the tracks as a young lad on Brush Lake near Bonners Ferry back in 1980 or 1981.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

"In the end, some people - a lot of people - just hate wolves because they have to hate something. At least that's the only thing that makes sense to me."


Naw! I like wolves, because we don't have a problem with them. If it got to the point of wolves cutting Deer and Elk down and they closed the hunting for my food.

Yeah, i'd kill the wolves, and tell the tree huggers to stuff it.

 

[Brent]

Lots of people say they want to poach wolves. Then they get all kinds of indignant when they hear about someone poaching deer. You can still have hunting with wolves. You know it, we all know it, but somehow suddenly the Northern Rockies appear to be somehow different than everywhere else. Why is that?

 

[123.DieselBenz]

It used to be the same here, but I don't know if that included wolves. The animal rights wierdos would have a field day with that one.

"But officer . . . it looked like a doggy running after that deer"! :grin:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Lots of people say they want to poach wolves. Then they get all kinds of indignant when they hear about someone poaching deer. You can still have hunting with wolves. You know it, we all know it, but somehow suddenly the Northern Rockies appear to be somehow different than everywhere else. Why is that?

Do you want to hunt and feed your family, or do you want to feed the growing population of wolves?

I posted this earlier. Did you read it?
http://namlhunt.homestead.com/MLhuntfuture.html

 

[tg]

The web site? pretty pathetic, but with Toby Bridges at the wheel little more could be expected, the Wolf/big game issue should be able to be worked out to accomadate all if sound management is used and politics are left off the table and someone uses Bridges for Wolf bait.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

The web site? pretty pathetic, but with Toby Bridges at the wheel little more could be expected, the Wolf/big game issue should be able to be worked out to accomadate all if sound management is used and politics are left off the table and someone uses Bridges for Wolf bait.

That's why I asked earlier what you guys thought about the site.

Are the numbers he's quoting wrong?

Are the members who live in Idaho who see a wolf problem wrong?

Just asking.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I can only tell you what it is like here in southern Idaho. I can say for a fact that EVERYTHING is different now than 200 or 300 years ago. We have towns in winter range areas. We have roads and freeways that have cut off migrations routes. Muledeer and elk are locked to areas no matter how bad the area gets. They are being hunted ALWAYS by wolves. Yes people need to protect game animals form these non-native wolves. It was said before that wolves were here in the 80’s I agree! The wolf that was once a part of Idaho was a smaller and less aggressive wolf than these Canadian Gray wolves we have now. They are a super predator in all ways. Wolves are even killing our bears and Mountain lions. Here is a story from a local news paper on it.
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005125077

Our deer and elk herds are in trouble and it is not just hype. It is a real problem for us as hunters that relied on deer and elk for sustenance hunting and for the Dept of F&G that is trying to sell tags for animals that are not there. Like I said before revenue for the F&G is dropping faster than they can get it back. At some point F&G will end up down sizing something and it is going to get ugly. Sportsmen and women are the ONLY source for income, no state tax supports the IDF&G. With income dropping like a rock in a river F&G will HAVE to go to the legislature at some point to try to get state tax dollars to stay solvent. Then the cost of wolves will start to hit home for wolf lovers in Idaho. It is one thing to say “I love wolves” it is totally a different thing to dig out your wallet and hand over your hard earned cash in a very tough economy.
Wolves are a government mandated scourge on our way of life. Butch Otter was right in telling them we are not supporting these illegal alien vermin any longer.

Ron

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I feel for you guys Ron. I'm on your side and see the problem. I don't understand why others can't do the same.

Aren't we all hunters here?

 

[tg]

"Aren't we all hunters here?"

I would say no. I cannot speak for Bridges numbers and as I said a solution should be able to come from management not politics, I am not a Wolve lover but there are usually two sides to every story, and this would not be the first time game management went astray, and as far as Bridges is concerned he is more of a threat to ML hunting than any Wolf problem, if solid game managment is caveing in to political pressure and bunny huggers I cannot see blaming the Wolf, maybe way back a truely traditional ML season with a lower kill percentage could have helped keep the herd levels up, there are several sources in the Spud state that I would not trust when it comes to ML amd other hunting issues.My guess is that Idaho made a big mistake allowing the return of the Wolf under current wildlife scenarios with no control contingency under Dept of Game management jurisdiction but just like when states allowed modern bullets, sights and high tech stuff into ML seasons it is usually difficult or impossible to set things right again.This might help some folks understand the frustration others feel with the direction ML regs have taken over the years.many states ML hunts are draw only due to more hunters than tags more high tech hunters that is, but enough oof thread robbing, hopefully something can be done to prevent the truely dedicated hunters of Idaho from loosing their big game seasons

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I agree on the ML season. I can't draw a ML season. I don't even try. I just shoot the ML in rifle season. It's harder hunting than ML season, but at least it's hunting.

 

[scobrien]

Yes KHICKAM, I agree with you----they were already here then. I also noticed their sign in 1982 for the first time while on a spring bear hunt in the North Fork River drainage. And of course, the good woodsmen in this country had already told me about them prior to 1980. Just how long we have had a viable population, I do not know.

Most people around here at that time dis-cedited any stories of wolf sightings and reports of wolf sign. They were doing the same with grizzlys as well.

I stated in my earlier post that wolves had not been a pretty scene in Idaho. I will expand a bit further on that statement. By not pretty, I mean the political and economic factors that cause division between interest groups. Simply put, friction has increased over the past few years and some peoples perceptions have been dramatically altered.

A lot of hunters are out trying to kill every deer and elk they can in fear of it all being gone in the near future, and we have two conservation officers patroling the entire Clearwater country (which is very large). This portion of Idaho is starting to feel like a lawless frontier to me It is a repeat of the Earth First/logger dispute that blew up in the early 90's.

I really do feel that our game will adapt to the wolf presence. I am seeing it already in my own personal observations. I have also come to terms personaly that every thing every where is always going somewhere. Things change and hunting as I once knew it will not be the same anytime soon, but it will come back. Change will come around again. I will probably whack a few more elk before I pass. For now, I will wait with patience and optimism while this situations works it's self out. Meanwhile, I will try to keep abreast on both sides of the issue in hopes of forming a more concrete opinion and philosophy.

 

[scobrien]

Hello TG. Idaho did not have a say so in the matter. Wolf introduction was a federal issue implimented by the Fish and Wild Life service and the Nez Perce tribe. After the numbers became stable, Idaho was given the responsibility for management. The Idaho Fish and Game Dept. opposed the re-introduction efforts. You nailed it when you stated that politics were the problem

We already had wolves here prior to the re-introduction plan. We would have been better off to just let nature take it's course at that point.

I do wonder why it is that we always feel the need to manipulate our natural environment to fit our desires?

Respectfully-----------Steve

 

[George]

Aren't we all hunters here?

Not all the same type of hunter at least, Capper. I saw a post in another thread on The Muzzleloading Forum where one of our hunters reported that in his area, when it came to wolves, the rule was "shoot, shovel and shut up". He left no doubt that was what he advocated. I'm not that kind of hunter and don't want ever to be identified with them. Given the choice between that shameful kind of hunter and the tree huggers, it's no contest with me.

Spence

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm trying not to post..........it's not working.....I must respond........



I didn't say........

Aren't we all the same kind of hunter?



What I meant was...........We're all hunters. We should all be concerned about the wolves.

 

[sidelock]

You are so right Ron. In the Bitterroot where I live I used to have 150 to 200 elk in my meadow every winter. And I never fired on one-- Don't consider it huntin. Now I sometimes see 15 or so, and I havent seen a legal bull here in about 5 yrs. And I have in the past seen as many as 5, 6 pt bulls standing in my front yard. Wolves are getting our elk, deer, my neighbors calves and pets. I have quit buying hunting licenses hoping the state will catch on and fight back( which they have not done so far)

 

[longcruise]

I agree on the ML season. I can't draw a ML season. I don't even try. I just shoot the ML in rifle season. It's harder hunting than ML season, but at least it's hunting.

You gotta be doing something wrong! :shocked2:

I draw an ml elk license every year. A deer ml or bow every year. Then I buy an extra elk and deer tag for other rifle seasons to boot every year.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Where? In my area?

I get a tag every year, so I have no points. I just can't get one for ML where I want to hunt.

 

[BrownBear]

You are so right Ron. In the Bitterroot where I live I used to have 150 to 200 elk in my meadow every winter. And I never fired on one-- Don't consider it huntin. Now I sometimes see 15 or so, and I havent seen a legal bull here in about 5 yrs. And I have in the past seen as many as 5, 6 pt bulls standing in my front yard. Wolves are getting our elk, deer, my neighbors calves and pets. I have quit buying hunting licenses hoping the state will catch on and fight back( which they have not done so far)

I spend a lot of time on some friends' ranch a few watersheds over from you, and it's much the same. Big ranch and lots of elk in the past, to the point that their alfalfa fields were more like Yellowstone than private land. Fur and feathers counted over 600 in one pair of fields alone.

Then the wolves showed up a few years back, and last year they saw elk only three times all year. It's been a couple of years since they took one (or a deer) on their own place, too.

But here's the funny part: We've spent days riding around the place, high and low, one side to the other. And there's nothing like 600 kills. In fact you have to hunt pretty hard to find an elk kill. A fair bit of deer, but those elk just plain packed up and left for safer ground.

Trouble is, no one seems to know where they went. Interesting sideline my friends kinda like. Their hay crop jumped from 5,000 tons a year to a little over 8,000 once the wolves arrived.

 

[George]

I've been reading about the Wolf problem in Idaho.

Here's a link to info provided by Idaho Fish and Game from a study done 2005-2008 which some might find interesting.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/wildlife/manage_issues/ung/elkupdate.cfm

Spence