Wolves?

[Greenmtnboy]

Vigilantism of any sort is usually illegal and the helter -skelter killing of wolves is uncontrolled as are other forms of vigilantism. Also some want the annihilation of wolves which is counter to good ecology {oh,oh...naughty word}. Somewhere in the middle a solution will be found....just have some patience.....Fred

Sorry Fred,
but our patience is ten years wore out.
And yes I want the ANNIHILATION of the unindiginious Canadian Grey wolf in the lower 48.
They were not here to begin with and when they were introduced the first thing they did was to kill off any remaining Timber wolves.
Not good Conservation practice and damn poor planning by the feds.
Like illigal Mexicans, if you don't have them in your back yard it's hard to understand the what all the fuss is about.
Fred seriously go to,
Saveelk.com and educate yourself.
PLEASE!!

 

[Brent]

And yes I want the ANNIHILATION of the unindiginious Canadian Grey wolf in the lower 48.
They were not here to begin with and when they were introduced the first thing they did was to kill off any remaining Timber wolves.

you would, by the same line of reasoning, exterminate elk in Arizona of course. They were reintroduced from Wyoming you know.

And lots and lots of deer, turkeys, sheep, most trout and god knows what all.

In the end GMBoy, you are the type of person who give hunting and hunters a really bad name among the majority of nonhunters that are really neither for nor against hunting and allow it to persist. But their patience with hunting is what will wear thin first, and we will all loose.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

And yes I want the ANNIHILATION of the unindiginious Canadian Grey wolf in the lower 48.
They were not here to begin with and when they were introduced the first thing they did was to kill off any remaining Timber wolves.

you would, by the same line of reasoning, exterminate elk in Arizona of course. They were reintroduced from Wyoming you know.

And lots and lots of deer, turkeys, sheep, most trout and god knows what all.

In the end GMBoy, you are the type of person who give hunting and hunters a really bad name among the majority of nonhunters that are really neither for nor against hunting and allow it to persist. But their patience with hunting is what will wear thin first, and we will all loose.

How about giving an example that makes sense? Are the Elk in Arizona killing off another animal that belongs there?

I'm sure Arizona hunters are thrilled with the Elk.

 

[Vaino]

Went to "saveelk.com" and like a lot of other websites it gives only one very radical point of view and that's the reason I don't visit these kinds of websites. Perhaps when young, a lot of "wolf haters" read "Little Red Riding Hood" and it scared the beejeebers out of them and they never got over it :hmm: . Also throughout history the wolf was pictured as "evil" and menacing and bestowed w/ the worst human characteristics and this personification of the wolf was something many people could relate to and hence the bad reputation. Controlled numbers of wolves are a good thing, but if their numbers increase to the point of interfering w/ other species, then it's time to reduce their numbers in a sane and methodical manner. Annihilation of any species is never a good thing....Fred

 

[tg]

The blanket approach to non native species introduction is a pretty lame one, each needs to be judged upon its own merits, the ball was dropped bigtime with the Wolves even tough there were some red flags waving at the time as I recall,if things are allowed to proceed without a proper pre evaluation and contigency plan should things go south, it is inlikely those who allow such will be prudent enough to solve the problem.

 

[Cosmoline]

Well maybe you hit on the answer in response to my post--open up hunting seasons and permit DLP shootings. That's not the same as extermination, it just establishes boundaries. They cotton to it when people start shooting them, and the other way round too. It's no accident they're boldest in the city proper where there is no hunting season for them and few carry long guns in the winter.

 

[George]

And yes I want the ANNIHILATION of the unindiginious Canadian Grey wolf in the lower 48.
They were not here to begin with and when they were introduced the first thing they did was to kill off any remaining Timber wolves.

May I suggest you read up on the wolves you enjoy hating so much? The "Canadian Grey wolf" is the same as the timber wolf. Same species, the grey wolf. The grey wolf is the one you see in Alaska and Canada, it's the one which was here in great numbers when the western country was settled. The grey wolf is indigenous to this country, it was indeed here to begin with, long before there was a country.

We are all allowed our own opinions, but not our own facts.

Spence

 

[Pete Gaimari]

You're right, but the Grey Wolf was not the wolf that was here causing no problems. Those wolves are gone now to be replaced by the Grey Wolf that is causing problems.

It was a different time when the Grey Wolf was here in the past. We can't handle them now if they aren't controlled.

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2005/articles02/truth_about_those_canadian_wolf.htm

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Went to "saveelk.com" and like a lot of other websites it gives only one very radical point of view and that's the reason I don't visit these kinds of websites. Perhaps when young, a lot of "wolf haters" read "Little Red Riding Hood" and it scared the beejeebers out of them and they never got over it :hmm: . Also throughout history the wolf was pictured as "evil" and menacing and bestowed w/ the worst human characteristics and this personification of the wolf was something many people could relate to and hence the bad reputation. Controlled numbers of wolves are a good thing, but if their numbers increase to the point of interfering w/ other species, then it's time to reduce their numbers in a sane and methodical manner. Annihilation of any species is never a good thing....Fred

Then you diden't read anything. :shake:
For God sakes go back and read the reports from the biologist who spear headed the reintroduction programe.
They screwed up they admit it and it takes more than a couple "o" min to read.
just get off your lazy a$$ and dig you will find all the info there.
:hatsoff:

Also what do you not understand about the wrong wolves being introduced, that distroyed native timber wolves.
Christ the indians used to go into spring time dens and cull wolf pups so there woulden't be an issue.
Also think about all the poor needy, not on welfare folk up in those areas who NEED!! the meat those wolves are decimating.
EDUCATE YOUR SELF, FORGET EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T LIVE WITH IT BUT YOU PASS JUDGEMENT ON OTHERS WHO DO.
:shake:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

And yes I want the ANNIHILATION of the unindiginious Canadian Grey wolf in the lower 48.
They were not here to begin with and when they were introduced the first thing they did was to kill off any remaining Timber wolves.

you would, by the same line of reasoning, exterminate elk in Arizona of course. They were reintroduced from Wyoming you know.

And lots and lots of deer, turkeys, sheep, most trout and god knows what all.

Your very ingornate and know nothing about me.
Elk are indigenious to AZ same as all the GAME ANIMALS YOU MENTIONED.
except some trout species.
Also did you ask me what my opinion on Native timber wolves is, of coarse not!
just like all the uneducated arm chair urban bunny huggers you see only black and white when the issue dosen't effect you.
Stop watching animal planet and read the biologists reports.
:thumbsup:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

You're right, but the Grey Wolf was not the wolf that was here causing no problems. Those wolves are gone now to be replaced by the Grey Wolf that is causing problems.

It was a different time when the Grey Wolf was here in the past. We can't handle them now if they aren't controlled.

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2005/articles02/truth_about_those_canadian_wolf.htm

tHANKS CAPPER, ANOTHER RIGHT ON WEB SITE.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

And yes I want the ANNIHILATION of the unindiginious Canadian Grey wolf in the lower 48.
They were not here to begin with and when they were introduced the first thing they did was to kill off any remaining Timber wolves.

May I suggest you read up on the wolves you enjoy hating so much? The "Canadian Grey wolf" is the same as the timber wolf. Same species, the grey wolf. The grey wolf is the one you see in Alaska and Canada, it's the one which was here in great numbers when the western country was settled. The grey wolf is indigenous to this country, it was indeed here to begin with, long before there was a country.

We are all allowed our own opinions, but not our own facts.

Spence

WRONG!!
YES THEY CAN INTERBREED BUT DON'T BECAUSE THE BIGGER MORE AGGRESSIVE GREY DISTROYED ALL THE NATIVE TIMBER WOLVES.
Where did you get your WRONG info on the Grey.

There was some overlapp but only by "Beta" weaker Greys, come on get with it don't make statements without facts.
:shake:

There are "Beta" wolves right now breeding with eastern coyotes called "coywolves" slang of coarse but a fact non the less.
Are you going to tell me the bigger more aggressive Coyote the eastern states are dealing with is Native as well.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

And let me get this straight to all of you who think I am anti wolf.
I am anti non native wolf.
Our ungulated who have not seen a wolf in 100yrs have no idea how to ajust.
And they have absoulty no chance against the BIGGER NON NATIVE MORE AGGRESSIVE GREY THAT EVLOVED TO RUN DOWN BOO ON OPEN TURRAINE.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

In his own words.


"Wolves fix very few problems compared to the ones they create." Ed Bangs, Coordinator - USFWS Wolf Recovery Project

 

[Vaino]

Whoa boy...no need to get personal which is a tipoff that someone is losing their arguement or getting very frustrated that their "righteous views" aren't being accepted. C'mon now...let's have a civil discussion, OK?.....Fred

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Whoa boy...no need to get personal which is a tipoff that someone is losing their arguement or getting very frustrated that their "righteous views" aren't being accepted. C'mon now...let's have a civil discussion, OK?.....Fred

sorry fred when it comes to uneducated :bull: I have tollorance.

1) The wolves dropped into Yellowstone Park were not Rocky Mountain wolves, known in the scientific community as Canis Lupus Irremotus, a smaller animal that hunted in pairs and was the indigenous species in the Yellowstone Ecosystem. Rather, they were the Canadian Grey Wolf, a super sized predator hunting in super sized packs that evolved to chase caribou herds for hundreds of miles.

(2) Federal implementation of wolf introduction has violated the Endangered Species act (ESA) on virtually every count. Dr. Richard Mitchell, PhD., one of the original authors of the ESA, traveled from Washington, D.C., on January 11, 2000, to testify in Billings [Montana] at the Predator Management Symposium. Dr. Mitchell stated to an audience of several hundred, including Sen. Conrad Burns, that it was a violation of the ESA to dump the Canadian Grey[wolf] on top of the Rocky Mountain wolf.




(3) The Rocky Mountain wolf didn't need to be ”˜re-introduced’ -- because it was already there. Locals testified at the aforementioned event to having seen the native wolf in and around the park prior to the "soft" introduction of this "experimental-non essential" predator that was already migrating into Montana naturally from Canada




(4) The true number of wolves in the park today exceeds Scott’s quoted number of 130 -- many times over. A recent census count of wolves has just been performed. Why haven't those results been made public? Under threat of perjury -- and in accordance with Title 18 of the U.S. code -- would [the following]: Yellowstone Superintendent, Suzanne Lewis and her two associates, [who are] responsible for the wolf program, Glen Plum and Doug Smith -- affix their signatures to a formal public document confirming the most recent wolf census in Yellowstone National Park?

Sorry about being so aggressive but I have seen the decimation first hand.
If we don't address the over pop of this preditor what do you think the Non Native Grey's will eat when all the ungulates are gone.
your kids!
Allready there are many reports of wolf attack in MT,WY,ID you know on that web site I sent you to that you supposly read.
Come on enough of the debating start educating your self Fred so we can be civil muzzleloading friends again.
:hatsoff:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Speaking of eating people. These hunters were lucky.

http://www.lobowatch.com/WolfImpact.html

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Speaking of eating people. These hunters were lucky.

http://www.lobowatch.com/WolfImpact.html[/quote]

Morning capper,
No doubt!
Hey had to get on another subject with you.
Sorry if I misled you on the elk regs for 55.
Next spring put in for 55 cow muzzleloader, you should pull a tag.
Come on over and hang out with us(yotie Joe, Rio,etc) I set up a pimped out base camp (traditional) and then strike out from there with smaller primitive camps.
Now back to our anti non native grey debate.
:haha:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Speaking of eating people. These hunters were lucky.

http://www.lobowatch.com/WolfImpact.html[/quote]

Bummer non western folk just think we are full of hate, I had no problem with a few Timber wolves(Rocky Mt wolves) It was cool to hear them and to know they controled coyotes.
But we just can't leave well enough alone.
:shake:

 

[Mort Scott]

Paul Thanks for all the information. I have come to the conclution there are a lot of un-informed people spouting off what they think they know.