Would that really ruin a rifle?

[Tower75]

Hi guys.

I'm reading a book at the moment and in it is a small snippet of info from a Civil War soldier's diary, David Holt, 16 Mississipi who;

"allowed the gun to slip out from under his tent during a heavy rainstorm and it was ruined in the muddy water"

The rifle in question would either be a Springfield or Enfield rifle musket, as just before that quote it talks about him dumping his old gun and picking up a new modern rifle after a battle 2 years prior.

What i'm thinking is, what would rain and mud to do a rifle musket that would "ruin" it? Holt had to replace his rifle musket so the gun was obviously unserviceable.

Ok - so your rifle is muddy and wet, can you not just clean off the mud, pull the charge if need's be and clean the thing?

Ok, the wood would probably swell and you might get surface rust, but couldn't you just strip the stock off and drop the lock and give it a good clean and get it dry? I wouldn't of thought a decent rifle could be taken out of action because of water and mud.

What do you guys think?

 

[MSW]

I'm inclined to agree. It's not as though these were "fine" guns- they were service rifles and then (as now) they were intended to be used in less- than- ideal conditions. It needn't look nice- it's just gotta go bang.

just one guy's free opinion, and no doubt worth every penny.

 

[tg]

If in foul wather and on the eve of moving or battle there may not have been time or conditions to restore the gun and drawing another from stores may have been the best solution, and I doubt if he asked if the barrel was tapered on the replacement gun :hmm:

 

[cowpoke1955]

I would say it is very possible. Down here in the South, summer time rain storms are very common. The temperature can get to 100+ degrees and the humidity 95% or higher. Unless you dry and oil the metal, a musket could rust before your eyes. As long as he was in camp, he most likely never cared for his musket properly. They did not receive training in weapon care as we do today.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

There were a host of crappy guns sold to both sides. Not just Springfields and Enfields. Pottsdam Muskets etc. Even some flinters. If a low quality gun could easily end up with an unserviceable tumbler ended up with a bad tumbler with just a bit of rust.

Maybe some of you Civil War trivia guys know, but it isn't like I have seen much evidence of gun oil etc being distributed for the troops. Maybe they all had little oil bottles, I don't know. If they didn't, those guns were toast.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I'm reading a book at the moment and in it is a small snippet of info from a Civil War soldier's diary, David Holt, 16 Mississipi who;

"allowed the gun to slip out from under his tent during a heavy rainstorm and it was ruined in the muddy water"

Not knowing the context, that could simply have meant that the gun was unable to fire, until cleaned and reloaded.

 

[ericb]

If it got really, really soaked, I s'pose the wood could've not taken it well...

E

 

[necchi]

I'm with Claude here,
The use of the word "ruined" is just to mean a nasty condition,,
,something different than we use today.
Kinda like "made freash" not many say that when we mean it was cleaned.

 

[crockett]

Got to be honest with you- I haven't a clue. The civil war rifled muskets were pretty heavy duty firearms, I can't see how some muddy water could damage them. Plug up a nipple? Block the bore and damage the bore/barrel if the gun was fired?

 

[hanshi]

I suppose it depends on exactly HOW it ended up in rain and mud and what is meant by "ruined". A bit of rust and dirt might not have kept it from firing; it could surely keep it from giving good performance.

If the wood swelled it could keep the lock and/or trigger from functioning at all. If it was dropped in the mud damage could have resulted. enough rust - as was mentioned about the South - would certainly put it out of commission.

 

[gearheart]

If you need it like right now and it is even momentarily unserviceable it is pretty much ruined I think. Not necessarily trash but definitely useless until it gets sorted out.

 

[Stubert]

I have an original 1864 type 2 .58 cal. Springfield, I can't see how any mud or dirt would permanatly harm it. I agree with the statement that "ruined" meant something else in that time frame.

 

[Tower75]

Here's the full passage;

"David Holt, a young soldier in the Sixteenth Mississippi, was very particular about the weapon he used. Right after the battle of Malvern Hill, he spent quite a bit of time surveying the field for the right gun, looking at many that were still clutched in the hands of dead Federals and others lying loose upon the ground until he found one that was brand new. Newly two years later, Holt allowed the gun to slip out from under his tent during a heavy rainstorm and it was ruined in the muddy water, but he aquired a new one from a Federal he wounded in a skirmish a few days later."

What do you think?

 

[Dphar]

Having to wipe a gun dry and then reload it would hardly constitute "ruined" to a soldier of some experience.
But soaking one in water overnight can have a serious effect on the wood. Chances are the wood was not sealed anywhere that did not show and the buttstock and lock mortise may have sucked up water like a sponge with a several hour soak.
This could have caused the lock to quit working, or wood bound the trigger or even caused splits in the wood. We don't know. All we can do it take the man at his word.
He was there, we are not.

Dan

 

[oldude]

Well he was paticular about his gun, and may have considered a badly rusted rifle as ruined. And it dose not say what he wounded the federal with afew days later when he got a new one. Jim

 

[morehops]

This brings more to the mystery. If he wounded a Federal a few days later did he use a different weapon or somehow "unruin" his rifle in the meantime?
My guess is that he meant ruin in the sense that the rifle was not readily useable. Only a full cleaning and maybe some minor wood relieving would bring it back into service. If I was going into battle in possibly a few hours and I had a muddy and soaked gun, I'm looking somewhere else for anything that's serviceable.

 

[cowpoke1955]

You really peaked my interest. My wife's great-great grandfather was Company D, 25th Mississippi Infantry. He died in Vicksberg on July 3,1863. I found David Holt in Company K, 16th Mississippi Infantry. The 16th Mississippi was placed under the Army of Nothern Virginia, where they did most of their fighting. David Holt took part in the 2nd Battle of Manassas, Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, the battle of the Wilderness and Cold Harbor, to name a few. Holt should not have been looking for another musket as a battle field pickup. He should have been looking for an APC with a M-2 on top :grin:

 

[Tower75]

David Holt took part in the 2nd Battle of Manassas, Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, the battle of the Wilderness and Cold Harbor, to name a few

:shocked2: He got around a bit, didn't he?

 

[airmansteve]

Just 2 more cents, gents. A man particular about his gun would know how to care for it. He would probably understand the necessity of a clean bore and good rifling. So my guess is the dousing in water and mud caused some rusting of the bore near the crown, thus "ruining" the rifle for accurate shooting. Kind of like a particular person considering his paint job ruined because of a scratch in the truck bed.
He probably used the rifle until he wounded the Federal soldier and then passed the "ruined" rifle on to some other Rebel troop.

 

[Squire1]

Tower I read 'ruined' as being sufficiently water damaged to be unusable until dried out and repaired. Whether it was eventually put back into battery is unknown but it was apparently ruined for him as he replaced it two days later.