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Rebuilding a 1728 French Musket
- Thread starter Millford_P
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What are we looking at here?
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Mine has the Udaipour markings that's one of the cities having the factories. I had a good experience years ago with Veteran Arms, very helpful guy, I bought 2 or 3 muskets from him and he wrote me an actual pen-and-ink page about the muskets when I made an inquiry about mine.
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This is super interesting! Thanks! I do note mine, from the 1980 approx. period, seems to be very nice quality all around. It belonged to a guy who did the Washington impression going over the Delaware at Christmas re-enactment at Wash. Crossing PA/NJ. It was in his estate auction sale, of course he didn't use it for the George impression, but you know how re-enactors are, they have all sorts of cool stuff! My India Bess has a fine bayonet with it, too. Thanks, FlinterNick!
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Jean Boudroits French arms sketches 1717-1777 barrels
Those are pretty cool.
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Yes excellent work if its all in French you can still follow it . I ran two photo copes at Kinkos the original's being rare so ones a spare to sell . The Muskets Kranks/ Longstaff sold I had a lot to do with I don't recall any with Indian proofs nor especially quality stocks , I just got shattered rejects worked them up & had them Birmingham proofed to sell in the US they went like hot cakes ! Rudyard thusly curious about these early ones. When I was down in India (Allways wanted to say that !)mid 70s I saw Mutiny type Enfield'.s for local trade Proofed at Indian Ordnance factory near Cawnpore . ( They call it Kanpur but I stay with the proper spelling no silly Moombuy or Kolcuta nonsense in my day .)I was born in 1944 We still had the Raj .But then we still had the War Not that I was too aware being young you understand .Ime down as being born in Fleet Street Sheffield but it was a ' Court 'of 4 houses hit by a German bomb killing all the families in 1940 but seemingly number 13 wasn't occupied or escaped major damage I don't remember that house but do remember the bomb damaged Town Center. Story was Gerry mistook the shiny moon lit tram tracks for rail tracks most of the Moor as it was called was flattened .However I digress & seemed to have strayed from Indian muskets , Pardon my transgression Ime 80 today. Rudyard
Millford_P
36 Cl.
Colonial Williamsburg has some great photos of a 1728 they acquired from the George Moller collection.
Link here: 1728 Musket
I'll probably use this specific one as a guide for the rest of the shaping I do on mine, especially around the buttstock and lock.
This leads me to the question - does anyone happen to have measurements from original barrel bands? I'm thinking the best way to get the shape right is adjust my bands to roughly match the originals and then adjust the forestock thickness to fit them.
Thanks!
Link here: 1728 Musket
I'll probably use this specific one as a guide for the rest of the shaping I do on mine, especially around the buttstock and lock.
This leads me to the question - does anyone happen to have measurements from original barrel bands? I'm thinking the best way to get the shape right is adjust my bands to roughly match the originals and then adjust the forestock thickness to fit them.
Thanks!
Millford_P
36 Cl.
Hi everyone,
Here's an update on the musket's progress.
Earlier in the week, I glued in some thin wood shims to each side of the barrel channel to make up for the gap made when the barrel was reduced. It took a quite a bit of time to refit everything - Next time I think I'll just use epoxy.
Today I did a bit of work on the stock, starting by reducing the extra wood on the bottom of the fore end.
I also brought down the bottom of the stock up a bit by the lock and trigger guard and cleaned up the inlet.
Once I was happy with the depth, I went ahead and started to bring everything into shape.
You can see here just how much wood was removed! These barrel bands will need to be cut down and re-welded in order to fit. The single barrel band spring had to be adjusted too.
Finally, everything was sanded down to 180 grit.
It's not a 100% perfect replica, but it's definitely starting to get more of that early French shape compared to where it started!
Next up will be re-working those barrel bands, staining the stock and polishing the metal. Just a few more weekends to go!
Here's an update on the musket's progress.
Earlier in the week, I glued in some thin wood shims to each side of the barrel channel to make up for the gap made when the barrel was reduced. It took a quite a bit of time to refit everything - Next time I think I'll just use epoxy.
Today I did a bit of work on the stock, starting by reducing the extra wood on the bottom of the fore end.
I also brought down the bottom of the stock up a bit by the lock and trigger guard and cleaned up the inlet.
Once I was happy with the depth, I went ahead and started to bring everything into shape.
You can see here just how much wood was removed! These barrel bands will need to be cut down and re-welded in order to fit. The single barrel band spring had to be adjusted too.
Finally, everything was sanded down to 180 grit.
It's not a 100% perfect replica, but it's definitely starting to get more of that early French shape compared to where it started!
Next up will be re-working those barrel bands, staining the stock and polishing the metal. Just a few more weekends to go!
Oh , just as an FYI. Nick and I managed to figure out that there was a top flat on infantry 1728 muskets.
Very interesting thread
Millford_P
36 Cl.
Yes, thanks for those helpful posts! I had made sure to leave a top flat on my barrel - this extends to just about 5in from the muzzle.
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When you weld the bands you’ll have a height and width problem, i would first cut vertically top and bottom and fit closer, see where that gets you.
What are you welding with? Tig mig or gas?
Millford_P
36 Cl.
Good advice.
Not sure about the welding system- I have no experience with it myself. An auto mechanic friend of mine said he'll take a look at it though. Worst case scenario, I'll just silver solder -wouldn't be ideal, but it should at least hold for a while.
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I wouldn’t silver solder the bands, they’re friction fit bands, they don’t just slide on and off.
The cut band edges will need to be keyed together i suggest matching 30-40 degree angles.
Tack weld one end so you can work without a clamp.
If you’re going to oxy acetylene weld the bands, pre-heat the bands to red/orange and use a neutral flame equal parts gas and oxygen. I would use 6013 rods, not flux coated. You can also use annealed picture frame wire (black color) from true-value, it works great, (not zinc coated).
TIG welding will work best as it produces a nice weld pool to get a through weld, with amps between 30-50, slowly accelerating with a cross dressed weld bead.
MIG welding might work well too, but i woudlnt’ use flux core, you’ll end up with splatter inside and out. I’m not experienced with a MIG welder, i know it works great for sheet steel.
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Why not give The Rifle Shoppe a call. They might have some in stock.
Millford_P
36 Cl.
Because that would have been the smart thing to do! Haha.
I think I would have had to have done that earlier, before I finished the stock and barrel. It likely would require some fitting either way, so I figure that I’ll just try something new with the existing bands. Its way more work than its worth, but an interesting challenge.
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I’ve got all the bands here from the rifle shoppe I can give you measurements, but its been tried before, generally will not work unless you cut the bands, i wouldn’t go spending tons of money on parts to see what works.
The bands that will work best are the following
1763 rear band is the largest inside diameter rear band and is very similar to a 1728, just has a slightly long lip, this. The problem with this band will be the inside vertical diameter, the Indian barrel is not as tall as an original 1763 or 1728 barrel.
Problem with the 1728 middle band is it’s very narrow on its bottom and will need to be opened up, but the M1717 solves that problem, however the M1717 band is still too tall.
The best middle band to use is an M1717 middle band.
I would not part with the Indian front band, but a 1754 is larger than a 1728 by about 2 inches.
I defarbed an Indian 1728 just by cutting and welding the bands, it’s easiest, if you want to send them to me i can do the welding.You’ll have to cut them to the diameter you need, then i can weld them back together.
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Shoots that idea right into the trash can
Millford_P
36 Cl.
Hi everyone,
Well, I thought I’d be done by now… but my own rookie mistakes have gotten in the way.
First lesson… make the barrel bands to the desired shape first, THEN shape the stock to fit. I totally did this backwards, bringing the stock down to size and then thinking that (since I needed to reduce their size anyway) that I would just make the bands to fit. Turns out, I don’t have the skill for that yet! So I’ll need to go back a few steps and redo a bunch of work.
The front barrel band actually came out great - fits like a glove. I took off a whole lot of metal and thinned it out a bit. Very pleased in that one.
Middle band took a bit of fitting and frustration, but it’s nice and tight now. You can see I’ve had to sand the stock a bit to get this one to slide down. I’ll be thinking this one out soon too.
And the rear barrel band… was a bit of a miscalculation. I took off too much material. I’ll either make a new one from scratch, or try to patch it somehow.
Moving further down the musket, will be the wrist. I was super happy with it a couple weekends ago, but now that it’s been sitting for a week or so, I’ve noticed that it’s feeling a bit thick. I know the earlier French muskets were a bit thicker than the later ones, but it just feels a bit excessive. I measured the width of the wrist at 1.7in. My original M66 comes to about 1.55in.
Does anyone have an idea as to what the thickness on a M1728 should be?
Well, I thought I’d be done by now… but my own rookie mistakes have gotten in the way.
First lesson… make the barrel bands to the desired shape first, THEN shape the stock to fit. I totally did this backwards, bringing the stock down to size and then thinking that (since I needed to reduce their size anyway) that I would just make the bands to fit. Turns out, I don’t have the skill for that yet! So I’ll need to go back a few steps and redo a bunch of work.
The front barrel band actually came out great - fits like a glove. I took off a whole lot of metal and thinned it out a bit. Very pleased in that one.
Middle band took a bit of fitting and frustration, but it’s nice and tight now. You can see I’ve had to sand the stock a bit to get this one to slide down. I’ll be thinking this one out soon too.
And the rear barrel band… was a bit of a miscalculation. I took off too much material. I’ll either make a new one from scratch, or try to patch it somehow.
Moving further down the musket, will be the wrist. I was super happy with it a couple weekends ago, but now that it’s been sitting for a week or so, I’ve noticed that it’s feeling a bit thick. I know the earlier French muskets were a bit thicker than the later ones, but it just feels a bit excessive. I measured the width of the wrist at 1.7in. My original M66 comes to about 1.55in.
Does anyone have an idea as to what the thickness on a M1728 should be?
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