Appropriate cylinder gap for Colt revolvers

[Jim in Wisconsin]

This stuff sure makes the top strap type design look good to me.

 

[45D]

This stuff sure makes the top strap type design look good to me.

As it should!!
The old saying " if you can't dazzle them with brilliance (Colt's original design) baffle them with b.s.!!"

This stock wedge in an appropriately setup open-top platform belt pistol will withstand 23K psi (45acp +p) rounds. Notice the barrel material is perfect as is the wedge.

The arbor is drilled and tapped for a set screw / wedge bearing that receives tension from the wedge. That tension is also applied to the arbor and applied directly to the barrel assembly, just as designed.

Both of my '60's setup this way are tack drivers with the hottest of factory loads.

No lathe or mill is needed to do what I do.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

This stuff sure makes the top strap type design look good to me.

It is superior in every way that matters from a strength stand point and is why Colt had to come up with the model 73 to sell revolvers to the Army . Army ordnance has always had their own engineers that know about design strengthening as well, not just the manufactures.
I do think open frame guns handle black powder fouling better than do solid frame designs which was an advantage in the civil war era.
With the proper equipment it is pretty easy to thread, fit and qualify a new barrel to a solid frame design but even this can be accomplished with hand tools, just takes much longer..
Being able to make, heat treat and fit new gun parts from bar stock as well as fitting and adjusting factory parts is what separates the gunsmith from the parts changer/adjuster ! One mans opinion !

 

[45D]

It is superior in every way that matters from a strength stand point and is why Colt had to come up with the model 73 to sell revolvers to the Army . Army ordnance has always had their own engineers that know about design strengthening as well, not just the manufactures.
I do think open frame guns handle black powder fouling better than do solid frame designs which was an advantage in the civil war era.

Colt made the '73 at the behest of of the Military.
Colt had a "top strap" revolver ( the Root series pre-dating the Remington) and dropped it.

Top straps are only as strong as the "top strap" thickness and width as noted in another thread as well as cylinder diameter.

Open-tops are limited to . . . (+p 45 ammo so far) still testing !!
Mike

 

[wiscoaster]

I realize the OP's question has already been answered and determined with specifics in excrutiating detail, probably to an extent beyond what the OP wants to know. I saw a video that addressed this question very simply and plainly: The gap is correct if a piece of paper can just fit but will fall out with the hammer at rest or at half cock, but with the hammer at full cock the piece of paper put in with the hammer at half cock does not fall out and can only be forcefully pulled out. Held up to daylight, you should see barely a sliver of light between the forcing cone and the cylinder.

This works for me.

Plus: if you can't rotate the cylinder at half cock it's quite obviously too tight.

 

[45D]

I realize the OP's question has already been answered and determined with specifics in excrutiating detail, probably to an extent beyond what the OP wants to know. I saw a video that addressed this question very simply and plainly: The gap is correct if a piece of paper can just fit but will fall out with the hammer at rest or at half cock, but with the hammer at full cock the piece of paper put in with the hammer at half cock does not fall out and can only be forcefully pulled out. Held up to daylight, you should see barely a sliver of light between the forcing cone and the cylinder.

This works for me.

Plus: if you can't rotate the cylinder at half cock it's quite obviously too tight.

Held up to any light you should see zero light. WITH THE CYLINDER PULLED BACK you should see the endshake set.
The "gap" is what you set it to.

How many have you "set up" ?

Watching "YouTube videos" can get you in trouble.

Don't spread "misinformation" like most do.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Just curious about what the gap should be. My Uberti 1862 pocket police is at around 8 to 9 thousandths. That’s with the arbor properly shimmed to length because of course it was too short! And that is measured with hammer down on a fully assembled revolver.

It's probably bigger than that with the hand spring depressed which is the actual gap that matters. I usually will set the barrel back if at around .008 or more and think .004 about optimum for black powder guns.
The largest gap I have had to set back was in a 60 Colt design that totaled .027. One could have throw a half grown **** hound through the gap it appeared like.

 

[wiscoaster]

...

Don't spread "misinformation" like most do.

...

Oh, for crying out loud, if it works, it's not misinformation. I've "set up" three; that's nothing by your standards, but they all work, and none have any endshake, or any other problems whatsover related to cylinder gap, and I can't pull the cylinder back because it's already TIGHT BACK like it's supposed to be. Don't misinterpret "sliver" and don't be so damn anal and make it so damn hard and complicated for newbies. They're just trying to have fun shooting. They're not out after competitive perfection, like you are. If you make it too hard and complicated then you lose them, and some of them might later be coming to you for a more competive and perfect gun.

 

[45D]

Oh, for crying out loud, if it works, it's not misinformation. I've "set up" three; that's nothing by your standards, but they all work, and none have any endshake, any any other problems whatsover related to cylinder gap, and I can't pull the cylinder back because it's already TIGHT BACK like it's supposed to be. Don't be so damn anal and make it so damn complicated for newbies. They're just trying to have fun shooting. They're not out after competitive perfection. If you make it too hard and complicated then you lose them.

It is easy.
You are (self proclaimed) a newbie.
Don't you think it's better to learn than spread b.s.?
Trying to help folks like you . . .
Mike

 

[wiscoaster]

...
Don't you think it's better to learn than spread b.s.?

....

I'm not spreading BS. If it has worked for me, then I don't consider it BS. If it has worked for me, then it works for others.

I'm a black powder / muzzle loader newbie, but I'm certainy not a newbie when it comes to recognizing someone who's looking out primarily for their own interests.

Sorry, but you're not helping others, and I wonder if your business plan is flawed.

 

[M. De Land]

I'm not spreading BS. If it has worked for me, then I don't consider it BS. If it has worked for me, then it works for others.

I'm a black powder / muzzle loader newbie, but I'm certainy not a newbie when it comes to recognizing someone who's looking out primarily for their own interests.

Sorry, but you're not helping.

Actually using sheet paper for a feeler gauge is not a new idea and most of it is about .003-.004 thick on average so your guesstimate is on the mark. Paper for patching bullets is usually thinner though.
Truth is most of the percussion revolvers in use today are and for ever will be shot with factory specs. The greater share have short arbors and yet they are accurate and keep right on working decade after decade. Sure factory tolerance can be improved on but is not critical to safety and plenty accurate for the average shooter.
What is questionable though is shooting high pressure smokeless loads in percussion guns, especially open frame designs !

 

[45D]

What is questionable though is shooting high pressure smokeless loads in percussion guns, especially open frame designs !

Only for you sir. I've been doing it for over a year now.

Mike

 

[45D]

I'm not spreading BS. If it has worked for me, then I don't consider it BS. If it has worked for me, then it works for others.

I'm a black powder / muzzle loader newbie, but I'm certainy not a newbie when it comes to recognizing someone who's looking out primarily for their own interests.

That's a load ! I've never asked for any business here, just trying to help "newbies" figure it out. If I'm who you say I am, why would I show you "how to's"? I have some proprietary stuff but nothing I give out freely (which is more than any other tuner).
You're welcome.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Only for you sir. I've been doing it for over a year now.

Mike

We have a difference of opinion on that point then and that is perfectly fine although some would call it disinformation that could prove to be dangerous to a new shooter.

 

[45D]

We have a difference of opinion on that point then and that is perfectly fine although some would call it disinformation that could prove to be dangerous to a new shooter.

Especially if someone demands that you shoot magnum loads as proof!!!
How careless can you be?!!!

Not all "real" guns are magnums!!
But those that can shoot +p's are definitely a step above.
Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Especially if someone demands that you shoot magnum loads as proof!!!
How careless can you be?!!!

Not all "real" guns are magnums!!
But those that can shoot +p's are definitely a step above.
Mike

You are the one pushing smokeless shooting in percussion designed guns, I simply am suggesting a Magnum level proof load for a design strength comparison (fired remotely as repeatedly stated) to prove or disprove your contention.
Frankly I worry that one of these days a smokeless load in a percussion gun design is going to come apart on you and leave some human tissue on the firing line! I don't wish for that to happen to you or any one else.

 

[45D]

The whole purpose of "enlightening" folks of the "proper" setup is so they ARE safe if they venture into higher than "off the shelf" ammo.

Mike

 

[45D]

Frankly I worry that one of these days a smokeless load in a percussion gun design is going to come apart on you and leave some human tissue on the firing line! I don't which for that to happen to you or any one else.

No need for proof. Walt sells the cylinders that require "standard" pressures ( 21K) so that's off the table. I've stepped further with +p's as long as they're set up correctly.

Honestly, the revolvers don't know what they're set up for and THAT is what I'm doing. So you won't have to . . .

Mike

 

[NorthFork]

Oh, for crying out loud, if it works, it's not misinformation. I've "set up" three; that's nothing by your standards, but they all work, and none have any endshake, or any other problems whatsover related to cylinder gap, and I can't pull the cylinder back because it's already TIGHT BACK like it's supposed to be. Don't misinterpret "sliver" and don't be so damn anal and make it so damn hard and complicated for newbies. They're just trying to have fun shooting. They're not out after competitive perfection, like you are. If you make it too hard and complicated then you lose them, and some of them might later be coming to you for a more competive and perfect gun.

Wrong!

I may disagree with @45D on Pietta vs Uberti, but the man knows of what he speaks. I'd advise @wiscoaster to heed @45D s words of wisdom.

 

[NorthFork]

I'm not spreading BS. If it has worked for me, then I don't consider it BS. If it has worked for me, then it works for others.

I'm a black powder / muzzle loader newbie, but I'm certainy not a newbie when it comes to recognizing someone who's looking out primarily for their own interests.

Sorry, but you're not helping others, and I wonder if your business plan is flawed.

@45D IS looking out for forum members best interests. His business is successful and will remain so due to satisfied customers. Customers who win matches.