Barrel prices!

[LuVerne Schumann]

Where are you going with this? Sussex was merely talking about rising costs in general. Semantics . . . Ugh.

Where I'm going to is the increasingly popular old man griping on this forum.

Muzzleloading is NOT a dying sport. Prices have been stable for the last decade. I think Jim Chambers is still using his 2010 price list, for instance.

The OP is bitching about a $15 increase in the midst of radically increased demand for kit and scratch built guns

While it's always been a niche hobby, traditional Muzzleloading is extremely healthy.

The quality of kits overall is increasing and kits like Kiblers are unprecedented in the history of the hobby. Historically correct kits and builds are cheaper than ever once you adjust for inflation.

The car metaphor is valid here. It demonstrates that the "good ole days" we're not that good.

In fact, I believe we live in the "good ole days" right now. And no amount of poor mouthing will change that.

 

[Carbon 6]

Where I'm going to is the increasingly popular old man griping on this forum.

Muzzleloading is NOT a dying sport. Prices have been stable for the last decade. I think Jim Chambers is still using his 2010 price list, for instance.

The OP is bitching about a $15 increase in the midst of radically increased demand for kit and scratch built guns

While it's always been a niche hobby, traditional Muzzleloading is extremely healthy.

The quality of kits overall is increasing and kits like Kiblers are unprecedented in the history of the hobby. Historically correct kits and builds are cheaper than ever once you adjust for inflation.

The car metaphor is valid here. It demonstrates that the "good ole days" we're not that good.

In fact, I believe we live in the "good ole days" right now. And no amount of poor mouthing will change that.

Sounds accurate to me.

How hard is it to make a barrel ? Seriously. Seems like one of the easier components to make to me, just resource and equipment heavy. Making beautiful stocks has to be the hardest, with locks being next. Now if you have carving or engraving, it's game over.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I just ordered a .54 Cal, 15/16" x 42" barrel from Pecatonica. Used to be $160.00. Now they are $175.00! DGW wants $189.00. TOTW is out of stock. I figured I'd order the barrel now. It seems that this particular cal. In 15/16" x 42" is in high demand.

From day one, all of my barrels have been standard production barrels that different companies would offer. My first, if I remember was about $50 for a 13/16" x 42", 45 cal. (Numrich) I just ordered a non stock barrel on 11/18: 54 cal, 30" long, 1" tapered to .800, with the threaded breech depth of 1.5". NO Breech plug. Prepaid cost was $300 plus a 3 month wait.
Flintlocklar

 

[rich pierce]

Sounds accurate to me.

How hard is it to make a barrel ? Seriously. Seems like one of the easier components to make to me, just resource and equipment heavy. Making beautiful stocks has to be the hardest, with locks being next. Now if you have carving or engraving, it's game over.

1) Buy round stock steel and cut to length. Face one end in the expensive huge lathe.
2) Switch to the expensive huge deep hole drill setup with oil pumped into the hole and drill 3 or 4 feet
3) Switch back to the big lathe and ream it to size.
4) Mount barrel on centers in your expensive planer and plane it octagon, perhaps swamped , to precise dimensions.
5) Mount it in your rifling machine with indexing, set that up, and cut one groove at a time.
6) switch back to the lathe and crown the muzzle.
7) Flip barrel in lathe and bore for breeching, then cut the threads.
8) make a breechplug from barrel stock in the lathe, turning down to thread diameter then threading it.
9) Fit the breechplug so it is tight against the shoulder.
10) Mill the breechplug to size and tang shape while on the barrel.
11) Remove milling or planing marks
12) stamp barrel with caliber, twist, maker, so on.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

1) Buy round stock steel and cut to length. Face one end in the expensive huge lathe.
2) Switch to the expensive huge deep hole drill setup with oil pumped into the hole and drill 3 or 4 feet
3) Switch back to the big lathe and ream it to size.
4) Mount barrel on centers in your expensive planer and plane it octagon, perhaps swamped , to precise dimensions.
5) Mount it in your rifling machine with indexing, set that up, and cut one groove at a time.
6) switch back to the lathe and crown the muzzle.
7) Flip barrel in lathe and bore for breeching, then cut the threads.
8) make a breechplug from barrel stock in the lathe, turning down to thread diameter then threading it.
9) Fit the breechplug so it is tight against the shoulder.
10) Mill the breechplug to size and tang shape while on the barrel.
11) Remove milling or planing marks
12) stamp barrel with caliber, twist, maker, so on.

Sounds easy to me...
Reminds me of the Steve Martin plan for how to be a millionaire and not pay any taxes.
"First, get a million dollars - then say, I forgot..."

 

[Blitz]

No, they are not out of the muzzleloader business, according to their website. But they have cut back on the ML barrel production as they are are making barrels for modern smokeless powder firearms. This change began a number of years ago as I remember. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

True GM makes many barrels forRUGER 10 .22 auots

 

[pooch156]

From day one, all of my barrels have been standard production barrels that different companies would offer. My first, if I remember was about $50 for a 13/16" x 42", 45 cal. (Numrich) I just ordered a non stock barrel on 11/18: 54 cal, 30" long, 1" tapered to .800, with the threaded breech depth of 1.5". NO Breech plug. Prepaid cost was $300 plus a 3 month wait.
Flintlocklar

Whew! That'
pricey,bu

Used to? Does that imply you no longer have the pickup?

There is absolutely nothing preventing you from reaquiring a points ignition vehicle today.

Unless, of course, the "good ole days" weren't really that good and you actually prefer modern vehicles.

BTW, I still drive older vehicles (1975 and 1967) and don't really think the "good ole days" were all that great. There is a cost to embracing the past. Comfort, convenience and capability being three good reasons that all happen to start with the letter "c".

True GM makes many barrels forRUGER 10 .22 auots

Yep! They started doing that years ago.

 

[Col. Batguano]

When you factor in all the steps and operations, they're downright cheap. Imagine how expensive they would be if they had to be made by hand, like the rest of the gun does. Electrons driving computer-controlled machinery are very cheap shop helpers.

 

[bud in pa]

Back in 1972 I bought all of the parts to make Lehigh Valley rifle for $200. Sounds cheap today, but how much were you making a week in 72?

 

[SDSmlf]

1) Buy round stock steel and cut to length. Face one end in the expensive huge lathe.
2) Switch to the expensive huge deep hole drill setup with oil pumped into the hole and drill 3 or 4 feet
3) Switch back to the big lathe and ream it to size.
4) Mount barrel on centers in your expensive planer and plane it octagon, perhaps swamped , to precise dimensions.
5) Mount it in your rifling machine with indexing, set that up, and cut one groove at a time.
6) switch back to the lathe and crown the muzzle.
7) Flip barrel in lathe and bore for breeching, then cut the threads.
8) make a breechplug from barrel stock in the lathe, turning down to thread diameter then threading it.
9) Fit the breechplug so it is tight against the shoulder.
10) Mill the breechplug to size and tang shape while on the barrel.
11) Remove milling or planing marks
12) stamp barrel with caliber, twist, maker, so on.

I believe your step number 4 (barrel profile) is being done on very very expensive CNC equipment, not an expensive planer any more.

 

[Sam squanch]

Overheard this griping old man-“ when I was your age, we didn’t have no fancy lathes! No, my two brothers spun the barrel between their hands, and I gnawed away at the steel with my teeth! And uphill both ways!

 

[ohio ramrod]

GM is out of ML barrel business. Any you see around are old stock. They were the bargain barrel. Numrich used to sell cheap barrels, but they were not worth using. So today you need to buy from one of the few remaining custom makers. When they are gone we will be in real trouble.

ML shooting and gunsmithing is a dying hobby. The old guys who have the skills and interest are fading away. Younger people are not interested. The covid response is killing small business of all kinds. Expect all parts choices to dwindle.

Track has not had complete parts sets for some time.

While not all Numrich barrels were top quality I have a swivel breech with two of them that shoots as well as my Douglas or green mountain barrels!

 

[dd832]

Back in 1972 I bought all of the parts to make Lehigh Valley rifle for $200. Sounds cheap today, but how much were you making a week in 72?

$200 for parts in Jan. 1972 equals $1266.32 as of Nov. 20202 according to the CPI Inflation Calculator!!! Bud in PA is right on the money $$$!
Mike

 

[Kansas Kid]

You mean it’s not just a pipe with a hole in it
I still do machine and welding work at home after being retired. I just love the it just needs some simple holes put in it and just zap it together

I just sent a long message to GM. If they answer I’ll post up.

 

[Limpin'frog]

Overheard this griping old man-“ when I was your age, we didn’t have no fancy lathes! No, my two brothers spun the barrel between their hands, and I gnawed away at the steel with my teeth! And uphill both ways!

In a blizzard at 20 below !!

 

[John May]

Be happy you can still get them.

Be even happier you don't live in the UK!

 

[billraby]

You realize just how cheap gun parts are once you start making them yourself.

 

[Pete G]

Sounds accurate to me.

How hard is it to make a barrel ? Seriously. Seems like one of the easier components to make to me, just resource and equipment heavy. Making beautiful stocks has to be the hardest, with locks being next. Now if you have carving or engraving, it's game over.

Making a barrel is easy; making a GOOD one, not so much.

 

[BJHabermehl]

One problem is the muzzloading sport is populated heavily by old guys with good memories. Plus the perception that if it loads from the muzzle it must be cheaper than a so called real gun. As a long time gunmaker I’ve faced this BS forever. Try pricing a barrel for a modern rifle. With the exception of green mountain all the muzzloading barrel makers are one or two person operations with bills and insurance to pay plus somehow making a living wage.

I’m an old guy too

 

[Capnball]

I think when the zombie apocalypse starts to die down and all that's left on earth is guys like us who can make the snazziest zip guns the world has ever seen, we'll retake our place on the top of the food chain.