Hi, everyone. Nubee here and to MLing. I recently finished a kit Traditions Firearms Kentucky Rifle. My question concerns alignment of the hammer's head over the nipple. I should have done a better job when fitting the lock. The alignment is a bit away from perfect centering over the nipple. The center of the hammer head is a slight bit right side (lock side) of nipple center and a little forward of center fore / aft. It is sufficient to fire the percussion cap every time ( about 25 so far) but is obviously contacting the cap a little off center. However, the rifle is misfiring some, I think more than it should. And after a cap is fired, the cap never stays on the nipple when I cock back the hammer. It stays in the cavity on the hammer head. I would appreciate some thoughts. Can this be affecting the reliability? Is it normal for caps to stay in the hammer head? How perfectly aligned should it be?
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Lock hammer contact with cap
- Thread starter dblubaugh
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Dan Whalen
32 Cal.
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Every single caplock I have built has required bending the hammer for perfect alignment. Sideways can be bent a small amount cold. Bending fore and aft is harder and usually requires red heat. Line the vise with brass or copper to prevent scratching. Dan
I am new to muzzleloading and thus is my first one. Its totally finished and looks stunning but I am kicking myself on the lock fitting job I did in the preliminary steps and didn't have the forethought to really look at alignment before getting into the more advanced stages.
rafterob
62 Cal.
As long as the edge of the cup of the hammer is not hitting the edge of the cap all is well. If the cap is going off and you are getting misfires, something else is awry. It is common for the cap to split after firing and also common to get stuck in the hammer.
If you are using Pyrodex or another synthetic powder you may need to step up to magnum caps. Otherwise make sure you dry patch the barrel and shoot a couple caps off through the empty barrel before you start loading the first time each session.That will get any moisture or oil out of the breech before you put powder in.
If you are using Pyrodex or another synthetic powder you may need to step up to magnum caps. Otherwise make sure you dry patch the barrel and shoot a couple caps off through the empty barrel before you start loading the first time each session.That will get any moisture or oil out of the breech before you put powder in.
I think Richard was asking dwhalen about the number of builds he has made not that it matters.
As for the misalignment of the hammer nose, this is quite common.
If the cap is firing every time (even though it might have a failure to fire), the hammer is OK as it is.
If the cap isn't firing, fixing some of the misalignment might help fix the problem.
The side to side alignment can often be fixed by not over-tightening the lock screws. Sometimes that can cause the lock plate to seat a bit off in the lock mortise.
Adding a very thin shim between the lock plate and the small shoulders in the mortise which the lock bottoms out on can also fix the problem.
It usually takes a very small amount of change in these shoulders height to tip the lock quite a lot so often just doing a little scraping on the tops of them can allow the lockplate to tip a bit causing the hammer to move to a more centered side to side position.
This method removes the need to count on some tiny, easily lost shims to fix the problem.
Study the lock and hammers side to side position with the idea of figuring out which way the lockplate needs to rotate to move the hammer to a better position.
Then scrape off just a bit of wood from the tops of the shoulders so that the lockplate can rotate in the right direction to fix the problem.
The fore/aft fix usually is not required and as was mentioned can be a bit more work.
Bending the hammer has the possibility of breaking it off or breaking the square drive on the tumbler.
Neither of these are good so avoid frinkling with it if you can.
As for the misalignment of the hammer nose, this is quite common.
If the cap is firing every time (even though it might have a failure to fire), the hammer is OK as it is.
If the cap isn't firing, fixing some of the misalignment might help fix the problem.
The side to side alignment can often be fixed by not over-tightening the lock screws. Sometimes that can cause the lock plate to seat a bit off in the lock mortise.
Adding a very thin shim between the lock plate and the small shoulders in the mortise which the lock bottoms out on can also fix the problem.
It usually takes a very small amount of change in these shoulders height to tip the lock quite a lot so often just doing a little scraping on the tops of them can allow the lockplate to tip a bit causing the hammer to move to a more centered side to side position.
This method removes the need to count on some tiny, easily lost shims to fix the problem.
Study the lock and hammers side to side position with the idea of figuring out which way the lockplate needs to rotate to move the hammer to a better position.
Then scrape off just a bit of wood from the tops of the shoulders so that the lockplate can rotate in the right direction to fix the problem.
The fore/aft fix usually is not required and as was mentioned can be a bit more work.
Bending the hammer has the possibility of breaking it off or breaking the square drive on the tumbler.
Neither of these are good so avoid frinkling with it if you can.
Falconguy said:
Just a thought (from experience :redface: )...did you clean the living heck outta the barrel before you fired the first time? They can put some bad grease in there and if not COMPLETELY removed before firing you will have issues. I too built a KY rifle kit for my first rifle and as a ten year old did not clean it good. Took about 20 min and many many caps to get the first load to fire. Then it was a PIA till I cleaned it GOOD with metal brush's and a pack of patches (don't use metal brushes till ya search threads for the fact they get STUCK). If yer sure you cleaned it well enough then yer probably having a patent breach issue of which some one will soon explain better than I could. GOOD LUCK and welcome.
Well I'm SURE your crummiest kit was better than his best. Feel better? :shake:
Thx to all of you for the valuable imput. Since I'm brand new to this and don't know anyone locally with ML experience, I just didn't know. VERY helpful. The caps are firing every time. I didn't mention this before, but I have had two visits to the range with it.
On the first, it fired fine the first four times and misfired on the 5th. The barrel was absolutely totally clean before that. After the 4th shot, I swabbed the bore with a lubed patch, turpentine had the misfire. It did fire with a 2nd cap. I'm using Pyrodex RS and win mag percussion caps ( I couldn't find regular #11 caps anywhere locally.
On the 2nd Range visit, with a totally clean barrel, it fired the first 5 shots fine before misfires started happening. I fired it 6 more times and averaged 1 misfire per shot. Sometimes it fired the first time, other times one or even two more caps. After a misfire I am cleaning out the nipple with a wire. So any additional recommendations would be appreciated, including how often and how to swab out the barrel. Thanks again, guys.
On the first, it fired fine the first four times and misfired on the 5th. The barrel was absolutely totally clean before that. After the 4th shot, I swabbed the bore with a lubed patch, turpentine had the misfire. It did fire with a 2nd cap. I'm using Pyrodex RS and win mag percussion caps ( I couldn't find regular #11 caps anywhere locally.
On the 2nd Range visit, with a totally clean barrel, it fired the first 5 shots fine before misfires started happening. I fired it 6 more times and averaged 1 misfire per shot. Sometimes it fired the first time, other times one or even two more caps. After a misfire I am cleaning out the nipple with a wire. So any additional recommendations would be appreciated, including how often and how to swab out the barrel. Thanks again, guys.
Larry Akers
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When you say "misfire" do you mean the caps don't pop or the caps do pop but don't ignite the powder? If the caps don't pop, hammer alignment may well be a factor. If it's that the powder won't ignite perhaps your jag is too large in diameter and you're pushing a bunch of crud into the breech. Your jag/cleaning patch combo should go down loosely without really wiping anything then the patch should bunch up behind the jag as it is withdrawn to pull the crud out. Be prepared to fish out a few lost patches until you find the right size patch to use.
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If the caps are all firing, Then there is nothing wrong with the lock.... Caps sticking in the hammer or splitting once fired is normal....
If your powder charge isn't going off you need to examine your cleaning regimen and or replace the nipple with something like a "hot-shot" nipple.
If your powder charge isn't going off you need to examine your cleaning regimen and or replace the nipple with something like a "hot-shot" nipple.
rijerolmon
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I think that LJA is probably on the mark with the firing issue. If (when) this happens again remove the nipple, work some powder into the drum, replace the nipple and fire. If this sets off the charge your issue is most probably in the breech as he describes. A different nipple may give you more fire to the drum and may help with the alignment issue (all nipples are not the same height). A little work with a Dremel type stone within the hammer cavity will help with the "stuck" cap issue. Happy shooting.
AZMTNMan Tnx for mentioning stuck brushes. I actually had that happen a few days ago and felt I lucked out getting it to back out after several minutes of anxiety. After that, I quit using the brush. This morning, I searched and found that article you mentioned. Definitely saved that!
rafterob
62 Cal.
Common mistake of new shooters. When swabbing between shots use only a lightly dampened patch (both sides) followed by a dry patch. Do not use an up and down scrubbing motion. That can push loose fouling into the breach. Just use water or spit, not lube. No reason to use turpentine at all.
First your hammer is OK -- you say the Winchester Mag caps "pop" every time which means the hammer is fine. Your use of Turps as a cleaning solution is a bad idea - use water base stuff only and just enough to remove heavy fouling or you will end up pushing the fouling into the breach area and clogging up the flame channel. Your use of Pyrodex RS is also part of the problem - it requires a hotter flame to ignite and if there is a restriction in the flame channel the flame can't make it to the powder and ignite it. To prove my case -- you fire 5 or 6 shots then you have a 'failure to fire" - the cap pops but the main charge does not. This tells me the flame channel is restricted and not all the cap's flame is getting to the main charge. Good luck and keep at it - this is a learning process forever :hatsoff: .
Thanks Zug & Gettogun. Well, what a shock just now reading these last two posts. Turpentine? U must think I'm nuts. I have no idea how, but AUTOCORRECT changed what I thought I typed "And then I... " turned into "turpentine". How I don't know but I definitely didn't use terpentine. I used patch lube. Thanks for being tactful, both of you! And thanks for the suggestions. What powders would anyone recommend? I only chose Pyrodex RS cuz it was mentioned in the kit manual. My caps are mag cuz that's all I could find but I want to find regular #11 soon. Also, the barrel is 1:66 twist. Does this relegate it to only using round ball?
