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My Kibler SMR Build Log

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Thanks for the suggestion about the hacksaw blades. The front pipe is a little loose. It's not tight to the channel. It was flush with the channel and the lug wasn't contacting the barrel when I drilled but maybe the pin hole got a bit wallowed. The front pipe is out now, and I'm working on solutions.

Is there any reason I can't use larger diameter pins on this rifle?
 
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Nope their is not. My suggestion if you do. Make the others the same. But if you don't, to me it only adds character. But it is your gun and that decision is up to you.
When I build a gun I want it to look used. Not brand new. But everyone has their own opinions.
 
As for the toeplate fit; I filed an angle on the buttplate toe with a small file, filed a similar angle on the toeplate and used a little soot to check and file for a perfect fit between the two. The resulting junction was sharp so I rounded out edge a little to keep from jabbing myself on it. After I got a good fit, I put the attaching screws in, I used a centering drill in the countersink to locate the holes in the wood.

I guess everyone knows this but I better be more precise in my explanation. You want your toe plate to be wider than your stock when you put it on. You file down the toeplate width after it is installed and just a little of the stock wood to have a perfect junction between the two.

My inletting looks a little off in the toe plate picture, the metal is proud of the wood. My gun safe has two dehydrator rods in it, over time the stocks on my rifles shrinks a surprising amount.
 
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Build Log Update

Toe Plate Metal V 2.0

There's just enough bar stock remaining to make another toe plate, slightly longer to overlap the butt plate, and with a simpler finial shape:
kibler_173.png


I did most of the thickness reduction by draw filing, with the final few millionths of an inch by sanding. It still needs a little more sanding with finer grit to take out the remaining scratches. And, yes!! It is actually 1/16 inch thick:
kibler_174.png

... where it's thickest at the butt plate end, and slightly thinner at the front, which is OK, no? Shallower inlet required?

But right now my thumbs are feeling kind of beat up, so I'm knocking off for a while. I'm anxious to get out to the local range and check out this sweet little H&R 999 top-break .22 I scored at a local pawnshop this weekend that was in great shape but really dirty, and cleaned up real nice:
hr999.png

... and, there's a Woodcraft almost next door.
 
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Build Log Update

Toe Plate V 2.0

I finished cutting the new toe plate. I think it's better than V 1.0, and I like it. I made the major cuts with a DREMEL cutting wheel and then finished off the finial edges and cuts with a file. It's a little longer, so I can have my choice of abutting or overlapping the butt plate. The finial will require a simpler inset. It still needs a little work before inletting: e.g. positioning of screw holes depend on finial location and existing guide holes, and the finial needs wedging. It also needs a little more scratch reduction and polishing, but that might as well wait until after stock sanding. And to a degree, depends on my final choice of metal finishing, which is still pending.

kibler_176.png
 
mikesto44 said:
... Easy to sharpen and they work real well. Also maybe it's the angle of the photograph but your ramrod pipes look a little high. To me they should be set down a little more. ....
Click to expand...

wiscoaster said:
.... The front pipe is a little loose. It's not tight to the channel. It was flush with the channel and the lug wasn't contacting the barrel when I drilled but maybe the pin hole got a bit wallowed. The front pipe is out now, and I'm working on solutions.

Is there any reason I can't use larger diameter pins on this rifle?
Click to expand...

mikesto44 said:
Nope their is not. My suggestion if you do. Make the others the same. ...
Click to expand...

A 1/16 in. roll pin purchased at a local hardware store solved the problem. Only - longest 1/16 in. roll pins available are one inch; too short for farther down the stock. Will order some on Amazon in case I go that route.
 
wiscoaster said:
A 1/16 in. roll pin purchased at a local hardware store solved the problem. Only - longest 1/16 in. roll pins available are one inch; too short for farther down the stock. Will order some on Amazon in case I go that route.
Click to expand...
I know you are not asking, but be careful using roll pins in wood. A 1/16” roll pin will typically have a min/max diameter spec of .066”/.069”, and the less expensive ones usually have a dimension even greater at rolled edges (manufacturers will say that their standard tolerance doesn’t apply in that area) and quickly enlarge the holes in any wood it is pushed into. The holes or slots in your barrel tenons should closer to .062” and will allow movement in the wood when the pin is compressed to fit the tenon hole. May not be of any concern to you. Used these things by the pound during my manufacturing career.
 
SDSmlf said:
I know you are not asking, but be careful using roll pins in wood. A 1/16” roll pin will typically have a min/max diameter spec of .066”/.069”, and the less expensive ones usually have a dimension even greater at rolled edges (manufacturers will say that their standard tolerance doesn’t apply in that area) and quickly enlarge the holes in any wood it is pushed into. The holes or slots in your barrel tenons should closer to .062” and will allow movement in the wood when the pin is compressed to fit the tenon hole. May not be of any concern to you. Used these things by the pound during my manufacturing career.
Click to expand...
Thanks. It is a concern. Do you have an alternate suggestion?
 
wiscoaster said:
Thanks. It is a concern. Do you have an alternate suggestion?
Click to expand...
Ok, admit that I have not gone back through the 350 posts in this thread to understand exactly what your concern with pins may be, so I’m making an educated guess here. You have for some reason wallowed out some of the holes in your kit well past 1/16” diameter included pins, correct? There are plenty of options to correct this type of issue, from finishing nails to coat hangers. Just have to find a drill size to match your choice and have a strong and steady hand to drill and elongate the holes. Or you could consider going up to the next common available pin size from TOW or other suppliers, for example, 3/32” diameter pins. Still requires drilling and elongating the holes in the barrel tenons.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/855/1/PIN-3-32-20PK20 hardened 3/32 diameter x 1-1/2” long hardened pins for $12 plus shipping. Maybe combine with other items you may want or need to reduce shipping cost per item. Not sure what the correct answer is as you have managed to drift out into uncharted territory compared to most Kibler builds, just an observation, not a criticism. Beyond that, pin size selection can become a battlefield decision on some custom builds, just the way stuff happens.
 
@SDSmlf - thanks for the link. I guess the main concern is appearance. While the 1/16 in roll pin solved the sloppy front pipe fit, all the other pins are tight as are the parts they pin. The roll pin sticks out like a sore thumb. For appearance purposes, if I change one, I've got to change them all. I can elongate the tenon slots and open up all the other pin holes if I have to, but I really don't want to for just one pin hole. 3/32 in. is pretty fat in comparison. Do you know if there's such a thing as wire pin stock like Kibler's except one size larger than what Kibler provides? I think that's what I need, but tried searching and found nada, so far. Or is Kibler's pin stock custom made in house? Then maybe no such animal. Thanks again.
 
I also would not recommend using roll pins for you build as SDmif has stated. Most any type of solid round stock will work. And yes make them all the same size if possible.

You do need to know why your original work did not work for you to learn. You seem to be limited on the amount of shop machines and tooling that can get you out of trouble, such as a milling machine/or a sturdy set up in a drill press and a ball end mill. You state that "the pin hole got a bit wallowed". What you really mean is I did a sloppy drill job and now the pin hole is enlarged and not holding the piece correctly. How did that happen? And what you need to learn is the first hole drilled is the easy one, now trying to correct the hole is much harder. A drill likes to follow the all ready established hole instead of being nice and round and correct size. Without actually seeing the job you need to figure out how to get a nice straight round hole in the wood by using the sloppy one you have, and probably use a needle nose file to take stock off one side of the pipe to get it down in position. Not having a lot of shop tools to correct mistakes does make it more important to work the first time more carefully. Knowing how to correct a wrong is important, but knowing how to do it correctly and carefully the first time is a whole lot easier on the mind. Try not to do double work. Consider what needs to be done to correct a mistake and try not to make one.
 
Rich44 said:
....You state that "the pin hole got a bit wallowed". What you really mean is I did a sloppy drill job and now the pin hole is enlarged and not holding the piece correctly. ...
Click to expand...
Yes, probably, though it was flush and tight after I first inserted the pin. So, "how" is still a mystery.

Rich44 said:
... Most any type of solid round stock will work....
Click to expand...
Yes, but can't find anything small enough. All I'm coming up with is round bar stock, roll pins, taper pins and the like and a lot of another stuff that's too large. If you know of a source, please advise.
 
You could take your calipers to the hardware store and measure finish nails and see if there are any in the needed diameter. If not, you could get some oversized and chuck it in your drill and turn it down using a file, stone, or sandpaper. Just a thought, take it for what it is worth.
 
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Another thing you can do very simply, is to put the slightest bend in your pin. It needs to be very slight. That will tighten it up and hold as intended, without chipping out on the stock. Too much bend and it may chip out when removing it. But it's not something you take apart very often.
 
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