Powder charge. How much powder do you use.

[swamperk]

i use 75 grains of pistol powder in my hawkens 50 cal for deer hunting, works every time

 

[stikshooter]

As I read through various post, I'm always amazed how much powder is poured down a muzzleloader barrel. The general rule I was taught by my ol' grandpa' back in the 60's on the farm is caliber of the gun +/- 20%. Or put the ball in your palm and pour powder 'til it covers the ball. Reading post and at the range I see shooters loading with 90 to 120 grains powder in their smoke pole. IMHO, that's a lot of powder. Of course, not preaching to anyone on this forum, trying to discuss this with shooters only makes them defensive and angry.
I try to explain it like this. The tried-and-true 45/70. 45 cal. lead bullet pushed by 70 gr. black powder. With muzzle energy of more than 1,600 foot-pounds, the 405 grain FP bullet hit a distance of 200 yards and flew at 1,330 feet per second. This bullet easily killed bears, moose, and bison.
My personal experience has been with me wife's rifle. .45 cal. 36" Green Mountain Barrel. Patch and round ball pushed by 45 gr. 3F. last year I shot a buck at 125 yards face on. The ball went in the chest, bounced off the spine, smashed the rear femur at the hip and out the back butt. The other benefit of the lower charge is less smoke and flame. I never lost sight of the deer. Not that he went too far.
I personally use a .50 cal. 42" Green Mountain Barrel, pushed by 65 gr. 2F. I use the same powder in the pan and the barrel. It's never failed to drop whatever I'm shooting at.
I bought my grandson an in-line, (scared of a flintlock). .50 cal. however, we use a .45 cal. lead ball sabot pushed by 1 triple 7 50/50 pellet. He dropped his 1st deer with it this year.
So, after all that, my question is why so much powder? Does all that powder burn before it exits the 24" and 28" barrels?
I'm not trying to start an argument, just gathering information.
Semper Fi.

Absolutely ,I use 75-80 gr OE 3F in a (Short 12 inch barrel) to 200yds (target only) . Under a 50 cal maxi/Lyman Plains or a an Accurate 514 I conical (hunting 125 yds) . The powder ain't wasted and the deer can't complain!/Ed

 

[pacanis]

was the 20 ga, RB'S patched? a killer group!

Thanks.
.60 ball and red ticking with mink oil.
They don't all look like that. 2-3" off a bench is more typical.

 

[Rifleman1776]

FWIW, in my .45 cal Douglas and Rice barrels I use 45 to 55 gr for target shooting up to 50 yards. For 100 yards I up the charge to 65 gr. For hunting deer I use 65 gr. No need for more they git real ded real quick with that load. BTW prb only.

 

[Bushfire]

Thanks.
.60 ball and red ticking with mink oil.
They don't all look like that. 2-3" off a bench is more typical.

I'd take that any day of the week. I'm still not settled on a deer load to 50 yards in my fusil

 

[gunpa]

Boy now this is a new topic! I'll bite. For huntin-- 50 cal gets 90grains 3f behind 420 grain conical. 60 for plinking. 54 New Englander 90-100 for hunting . Dixie 54 Hawken 90 with conical. Both 54's get 70 grains for round ball plinking. Works for me out in the wild west.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

We use the davenport formula and dont waste powder.

My 45/70 with 430gr FNFB do 1450fps
My 45 cal round ball does 2033fps, yeah there is no comparison.

For my 42 inch barrel using the davenport formula I use 54.5gr for under 100 yards, and 74.5 gr for longer distances. Another 1/2 grain and Im spitting unused powder out the muzzle.

 

[longcruise]

Now that I know what a "tick totter" is I'll say I have never found a tick on any deer I have shot.

Never seen it either on any Michigan, Wisconsin or Colorado deer.

This time of year i read the posts by members who live in warmer climes and envy them a bit but the tic, chigger and mosquito problems turn me around.

 

[William Sublette]

If you use the correct amount of propellant, the ticks will drop off when you whack a deer.

 

[Stykbow]

I keep reading all responses and I’ve noticed some things worth mentioning.
1. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a gun of any sort that doesn’t spit flames to some degree when you fire it. You might need lower light to see it, but it’s happening.
2. Unburned powder is a myth.
3.You might be wasting some powder by loading a monster charge in a short barrel, but not because it isn’t burning it. A longer barrel will give you a higher velocity when compared to a shorter barrel when using the same load. You might be taking a pounding for a smallish gain.
Now, with all that said I don’t really care and pass no judgment on any of you for what you choose to load. Light, heavy, or in between it’s all good.

 

[SwanShot]

I generally load about 50 grains behind a PRB in all my .45, .50, and .54 guns. If I am shooting conicals or plastic unmentionables with pistol bullets, I will increase that charge to 70 grains or so. My 12" barrels in .50, .54 (9") and 12 Ga. get thirty grains or so because of the short length. T/C Patriots in .45 & .36 get anywhere from 7 grains to maybe 20 grains at most. I'm still experimenting with those. My T/C Seneca in .36 gets 30 grains of powder for a PRB and the .32 Cherokee gets 15 to 20 grains, depending upon range, which is usually quite short, so mostly 15 grains under a PRB. I have done some experimenting with the Seneca and paper-patched .357 - .358 caliber 158 grain LSWC, but haven't increased the powder yet. Have also tried some .311 bullets in plastic unmentionables.

I have fired some 90 grain loads in some of these guns over the years, but mostly I don't like the recoil, the muzzle flash, the huge cloud of smoke that takes forever to dissipate and the unbelievable amount of fouling at the muzzle. As I would probably never encounter a deer/target further out than about fifty yards, I see no real need to waste powder just to make more smoke and to punish myself.

If I ever acquire a really big bore gun, I might increase the charge weight, but that is unlikely to happen any time soon. .54 is a big enough rifle for anything that lives on this continent, and if I want to defend myself against a sasquatch at close range, a .710 round ball dishes out a great deal of hurt, even from a 12" barrel and a 30 grain charge.

Yep. What he said works for me.

 

[Brokennock]

Just using someone else's numbers for comparison, we'll most of them, they conveniently left out what size .45 ball they are using and it's weight..... 45/70 compared to .45 roundball....
430 grain conical × 1450fps= 623,500 power factor
A .445 roundball (I went with the heavier option to give it a better chance of even comparing, lol) weighs 133 grains,,,, if, pure lead.
133grains x 2,033= 270,389 power factor.

I went with power factor because I have to use it a lot and it's easy.

Roundball weights found here,
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/pure-lead-ball-weight.28649/

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Yep. What he said works for me.

Just noticed a mistake; my 12 ga bore is .729" if memory serves, but I only shoot a .690 PRB. It fits kinda loose with a single patch, so I am thinking about bumping it up a bit to .710, using only one patch and eliminating the card and wad... we'll see. My load, still under development is 30 grains of 3f Triple 7, then a heavy over-powder wad, a .690 round ball wrapped in a lubed 2" cotton cleaning patch (to keep the ball from touching the bore, topped by a cushion wad... which is also lubed. I use CCI #11 caps.

I have tried a fifty grain powder charge, but recoil starts to get excessive with that light a gun and with only a 12" barrel, I think most of the extra charge gets burned after it exits the muzzle.

Gun is carried slung muzzle down on my left shoulder and gets unslung and shouldered on my right shoulder in one more or less fluid motion. There is no bead, but I can hit a soda can at twenty yards just by looking down the barrel. As the gun was conceived to be a close range defense gun against a large predator in my bookverse (not the real world), I figure that twenty yards is about right. An animal in the 600 - 800 pound weight class would be hard to stop even with a .690 RB, but a hit might slow it down enough for my genetically engineered protagonist to possibly get the gun reloaded in time for a second shot with bare ball.

As a mere normal human, I could not match my protagonist, so I would be lunch for the predator unless the first shot killed it and killed it quickly.

Somewhat off topic, but has anyone seen the Netflix show Vox Machina? It is an adult animated series apparently based on something to do with Dungeons & Dragons somehow. They actually use swear words! In any case, one of the protagonists carries what looks to be a vierling percussion pistol that uses black powder... which, in his universe is as difficult to come by as it is currently in ours.

 

[Ben Meyer]

I use 80gr of 2f in both my .50's, whether I'm shooting at deer or paper. If I need to use 3f instead, I use 70gr.

 

[jimairwin]

I do consider my roundball guns to be a 100yd proposition…but in practical application in the field, especially in sagebrush country, a mule deer is apt to meander 10 of 30yds again before presenting another shot opportunity…so what started as an 80yd shot could well become a 115yd shot or 130 when the trigger breaks.

Open fixed sights don’t allow much extra fine adjustment at the far end of the gun’s capabilities…but the extra launch velocity, with it’s modest trajectory gain could “pickup the slack”.

I only mention 150 yds because it’s the far extreme of my point blank range…inside of 150 yds my round ball should hit within 6” of where my front sight is when the trigger breaks…

6 inches is not so hot, pilgrim. I set a record for the 130 yard Hawken match in Oregon about 40 years ago. Shots at a 100 yd bullseye. My Hawken with Douglas barrel 1:66in twist 54 cal. using 100 grains 2fg is dead on at 100 yds. At "approx 130 yds" I aimed at the top edge of the black to hit center. That's about 3in drop in the additional 30 yards. Go on to 150 and see how much more drop you get. Look at the tables in Lyman's black powder handbook and see how much drop and loss of velocity you get. "picking up the slack" is to me a foolish expectation.

That distance demands faster twist and a good bullet. (And lots of good, disciplined practice!) to get the impact and energy required to bring down your game.

Good luck

 

[Brokennock]

Or just learn to hunt or except that you don't always get to kill something everytime

 

[stikshooter]

I generally load about 50 grains behind a PRB in all my .45, .50, and .54 guns. If I am shooting conicals or plastic unmentionables with pistol bullets, I will increase that charge to 70 grains or so. My 12" barrels in .50, .54 (9") and 12 Ga. get thirty grains or so because of the short length. T/C Patriots in .45 & .36 get anywhere from 7 grains to maybe 20 grains at most. I'm still experimenting with those. My T/C Seneca in .36 gets 30 grains of powder for a PRB and the .32 Cherokee gets 15 to 20 grains, depending upon range, which is usually quite short, so mostly 15 grains under a PRB. I have done some experimenting with the Seneca and paper-patched .357 - .358 caliber 158 grain LSWC, but haven't increased the powder yet. Have also tried some .311 bullets in plastic unmentionables.

I have fired some 90 grain loads in some of these guns over the years, but mostly I don't like the recoil, the muzzle flash, the huge cloud of smoke that takes forever to dissipate and the unbelievable amount of fouling at the muzzle. As I would probably never encounter a deer/target further out than about fifty yards, I see no real need to waste powder just to make more smoke and to punish myself.

If I ever acquire a really big bore gun, I might increase the charge weight, but that is unlikely to happen any time soon. .54 is a big enough rifle for anything that lives on this continent, and if I want to defend myself against a sasquatch at close range, a .710 round ball dishes out a great deal of hurt, even from a 12" barrel and a 30 grain charge.

Good you got that figured , but my 12 inch 1-28 twist muzzy with off shore (highly regarded) barrel shooting 80-90 gr OE 3 F or 75 gr weighed sub (BH 209)gets a Great Plains 50 cal staying in 1/2 a pie plate @ 200 yds as long as I can stand the cold off a bench .And not for nothing don't say any thing about wasted powder ! That would start another discussion with the pristine 4inch of white snow and my chrono !!/Ed

 

[stikshooter]

Or just learn to hunt or except that you don't always get to kill something everytime

Sounds like a starving pilgrim , following that advice ! And learning to hunt was included according to you as a definition I assume your great at rock throwing /Ed

 

[stikshooter]

If hunting, sight-in about a week before the hunt. Do not just grab your gun and go to hunt.
Load your gun during the sight-in as you will at the hunt. Wild shots and endless tracking of
wounded animals results from failure to prepare for success. During off season, take the time
to work up your best most accurate loads WITH the projectile and powder you will be using.
Scout the area to be hunted--even if on your own land- well beforehand. Bring a container or
mason jar to pee in, especially on stand. If you have a wife that will not be with you, leave her
a gift as you go, to remind her that she is the "Real Dear" that you treasure the most.

That idea about peeing in a mason jar is out dated ,I use a Gatorade bottle at least until I heard some folks now pee in the false scrape they make ,says the deer are attracted the same as deer pee and show the deer
(some nice bucks) too!/Ed

 

[Brokennock]

Sounds like a starving pilgrim , following that advice ! And learning to hunt was included according to you as a definition I assume your great at rock throwing /Ed

Not a "pilgrim" and hardly starving.
Sorry if having some ethics and not having a need to shoot everything I see regardless of how far away it is offends you.

Oh, wait,, no, I'm mistaken.
I'm not sorry at all.