Pyrodex...will somebody please explain?

[Pete Gaimari]

I would have told him to get rid of the Crapopellets.

Problem solved. :grin:

 

[Zonie]

Yah! Good advice but after he gets rid of the Crapopellets should he continue to shoot the Pyrodex pellets? :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Hey Zonie.

You made a funny. :thumbsup:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

guy should have read his manual, clearly states not to use pellets in that rifle.

 

[Josh Smith]

Josh, Dan Pawlak invented and patented Pyrodex because it has a higher ignition temperature than black powder and is therefore safer to ship and put on store shelves. It is harder to ignite than black powder, and he addressed that problem, too. He invented the HotShot nipple. This is Thompson/Center's No. 7075, Wal Mart sells them out here, so does Track of the Wolf and others. Mine has an .035 hole. Do not drill it out. It works perfectly well as is. It makes all the difference in igniting Pyrodex P, RS, and the Triple 7 powders in caplocks, compared to a regular nipple. I use this nipple in all my caplocks, even for regular black powder. They cost about $5. You do not need magnum primers.

Now to primers. Lyman's Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual, 2nd edition, has loading data for black powders, Pyrodex P, RS and Select. They say "Percussion Caps: CCI #11 percussion caps were used in most of our testing. CCI #11 Magnums were used with Pyrodex Pellets as they are more difficult to ignite than black powder. RWS Musket caps were used in some .58 caliber testing..." They did 5-shot tests of each load, and that totalled 4,235 shots with Pyrodex P, RS and Select using CCI #11 primers compared to zero magnum primers with the same.

Hi Herb,

I have a T/C New Englander equipped with the HotShot nipple.

It will fire Pyrodex just fine - though it does go "snap BOOM" when black powder will just go "BOOM."

Additionally, if I load Pyrodex and let it sit for a week, it may go off, or it may take two caps to set it off.

If I load black powder and keep it dry, there's not a question it's going to go off.

I just had a sudden impulse to go dump the Pyrodex I have in the garden, but I can't bring myself to pour $20 away.

Wish I could.

I guess I did the "black powder substitute thing" and came away not a fan. Digging up black powder is worth it, even if it takes more work than a drive to Walmart :thumbsup:

Thank you Sir,

Josh

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'd have no problem dumping it.

 

[Herb]

Josh, this is kind of like "it hurts when I do this". "Well, stop doing that!" Why load it and leave it set around for a week? I don't even know what a Thompson Center New Englander is. Just looked up TC's web site and didn't find it. If someone else knows, help answer this question. But I suppose it has a patent breech, with a small ignition channel from the nipple leading into the bore. This is likely constricted in some way that the powder does not get down against the nipple. This delays ignition. I had an awful time with a hooked flint breech from Track of the Wolf that I put on a Green River barrel to make a .58 fullstock flintlock. This was with Swiss powder. The powder would bridge and not go down that 3/8" hole to the flash hole. If that is the type of breech you have, clean that smaller hole very well. It may take a .30 caliber brush to do it. Then dry it. And when you load, bump the butt on the ground to settle powder into that channel. Pyrodex RS is coarser grained than Pyrodex P, as others have said on this thread, and perhaps is bridging. Your problem is not the powder but the use of it in this ignition system. Can anyone else help answer his question?

 

[mowolf]

Well,

I admit I have used Pyro and 777, I always go back to GOEX. Why? In this area it is several dollars cheaper per pound (about $18 vs 25. Plus I like the smell :grin:

I have found that my rifles, shotgun and pistols clean up easier with dawn and water with goex.

Wayua

 

[Pete Gaimari]

To be fair. Pyro smells as good as BP.

However, it has to fire to smell good.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

my most favorite smelling powder "unlit" is american pioneer, it smells like brown sugar. Blackhorn209 would be next up on the list.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Here's what poopodex will do to your Getz barrel. I forgot my Goex for an elk hunt, and my brother-in-law was camped near me and loaned me RS. I unloaded my gun every night by shooting it. And, I might add, cleaned it. Six times, and this is what it did.
First patches(doubled) dry, then the next three soaked in ballistol. All hogdon would do for me is send me 5 lbs of 3F.

Looks like the Getz barrel isnt quality steel.

 

[hoochiepapa]

That may very well be, Kentucky. But I hunted with it for several years with Goex (unsuccessfully, I might add), unloaded it every nite by firing it, cleaned it before going to bed, and never had a problem. :dead:

 

[Josh Smith]

Josh, this is kind of like "it hurts when I do this". "Well, stop doing that!" Why load it and leave it set around for a week? I don't even know what a Thompson Center New Englander is. Just looked up TC's web site and didn't find it. If someone else knows, help answer this question. But I suppose it has a patent breech, with a small ignition channel from the nipple leading into the bore. This is likely constricted in some way that the powder does not get down against the nipple. This delays ignition. I had an awful time with a hooked flint breech from Track of the Wolf that I put on a Green River barrel to make a .58 fullstock flintlock. This was with Swiss powder. The powder would bridge and not go down that 3/8" hole to the flash hole. If that is the type of breech you have, clean that smaller hole very well. It may take a .30 caliber brush to do it. Then dry it. And when you load, bump the butt on the ground to settle powder into that channel. Pyrodex RS is coarser grained than Pyrodex P, as others have said on this thread, and perhaps is bridging. Your problem is not the powder but the use of it in this ignition system. Can anyone else help answer his question?

A T/C New Englander is a lot like the T/C Hawken, but with a single trigger, round barrel, and no-frills wooden stock.

This is not mine, but mine looks exactly like this:

Thanks,

Josh

 

[CaptainKirk]

Not trying to be a smart a$$ but your experience is not typical and not just from my experience but that of others as well.
If you lived closer I would love to come examine your guns with a magnifier and bore scope.
I may get east in January, eastern Iowa anyway, but probably will be on a tight schedule.

Dan

Dan, no disrespect intended here, but if you did examine my bore(s) with magnifier and bore scope and told me you had found micro-corrosion pits and crazing on a microscopic level, well, frankly I really wouldn't care. My guns are valuable to me, and as such, I treat them with the utmost respect when afield and handling, cleaning being one of those functions. But I'm not about to worry or lose sleep over pits and/or crazing I can't see without a microscope.
Some of you have complained about very expensive custom barrels being ruined. I feel your pain, really I do. But I'm shooting a Lyman Trade Rifle I paid $125.00 for brand new back in the eighties. After more than 3 pounds of RS and some P as well, it's clean (to the naked eye) enough for me. That's about the best I can ask for.
The pistols don't have as many rounds through them but are clean as well. We're not talking museum pieces here. I understand the warnings and admonitions to newcomers here based on your own bad experiences, but on a personal note, I ain't buyin' it. I've seen no evidence to back it up.
An unexpected side effect of this thread, ironically enough; I am now itching to try the Holy Black to see if I notice any difference in lock speed or grouping "just because"...that is, if I'm able to buy it without buying $100.00 worth. I will still shoot Pyrodex, of course, unless my experimentation convinces me otherwise. It probably won't happen until spring when the weather breaks, but when I do, I'll definitely let you all know the results.

 

[CaptainKirk]

captain kirk...

like i said earlier in this thread, you live only 3 hours from a BP dealer who carries both swiss and shuetzen powders. you can buy any amount you like up to 50lbs. the prices are extremely good.

here's the link
www.addictedtoblackpowder.com



i buy mine from him.

waukegan to mineral IL is approximatly3 hours, 6min according to mapquest. it would make for a good day out of the house. just tryin' to help.

Thanks! I will definitely check it out!

 

[CaptainKirk]

Lets ask this another way. Why do you Pyrodex fans use it instead of the other less corrosive substitutes like trip 7.

Because when I started shooting BP, Holy Black was unavailable and there WERE no other subs. Pdex worked then and it works now. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Herb]

I build heirloom quality longrifles and furnish the customer with an operators manual. A description of the rifle, a complete list of all the parts, what components are used in shooting it and how to load, shoot and clean it. I furnish proof targets with chronograph info. If the person is not a black powder shooter, I test the replica powders and report on them, too. Because black powder may be hard to get in 5 to 20 or 50 years, and I want to give the person current info that may allow them to continue shooting the rifle. Some of you may want to write out your operator's manual, even for black powder, so if the rifle goes to a grandson or someone not familiar with its use, you may provide for their safe use and enjoyment of it. When they pass from us, there is no telling what will happen. See the nice thread in the Percussion forum, "Grandpa's Rifle", of 11/25/10.

Here is a Chambers Mark Silver early Virginia .58 rifle I built for a man to give to his son. They hunt big game. I offered to train the son in use of this rifle, he lives in Salt Lake City, but he did not take me up on this. His dad told me that Junior PUT A SCOPE ON THIS RIFLE! I could have sh*t!. This cut its value from $2500 by maybe 2/3rds, but there it is. When they leave us, who knows what will happen.

This is a .50 caplock I built in 2002 and the owner, a hunter, still has not fired it. But he has my operator's manual and fortunately is a member of a large gun club in Portland where one hopes he could find a skilled muzzleloader shooter who knows enough to mentor him in its use. The bottom right target was shot with 100 grains of Pyrodex RS, CCI 11 caps and a HotShot nipple, 50 yards, I think.

Here is a view of the lock side. He had me engrave a verse from the bible on the patchbox lid: "They that hope in the Lord will renew their strength, They will soar on wings like eagles. Isaiah 40:31"

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Beautiful work Herb. :bow: It's a shame what your customers are doing with them.

I would have a 1000 rounds through it with no scope and real BP by now. :wink:

 

[kelleyjk]

+1

thats a swell lookin rifle just saw Herb's other work in another thread I want that .54 Bridger copy !

for the record anyone that drilled and tapped that rifle for a scope has got to be :youcrazy:

 

[Darkgael]

Herb's rifles are works of art but how about a little focus on the point of his post in this thread which was how well that beautiful rifle shot with the Pyrodex load?
I am a dedicated BP user at this point in my shooting career but that group is about as good as it gets.
As to clean up....Pyrodex, BP, 777 - I haven't noticed any big difference cleaning up after one or the other. The same techniques apply.
Pete