Questions about Lead projectiles in CA For Hunting

[Powderedtoastman]

In doing some research on the lead-free requirement for hunting in California, I found on the CDFW's own website that "Since pellet rifles are not firearms, the use of lead projectiles in pellet rifles is not prohibited."

I then researched the specific law requiring lead-free projectiles for hunting, and again on CDFW's website they state:
"Effective July 1, 2019, nonlead ammunition is required when taking any wildlife with a firearm anywhere in California.

In October 2013, Assembly Bill 711 was signed into law requiring the use of nonlead ammunition when taking any wildlife with a firearm in California. "

I then researched the definition of "antique firearm" and came across CA Penal Code Definition Section 16170 which under this definition a black power rifle flintlock, matchlock, percussion cap etc. EVEN IF a replica manufactured after 1898 is not a "firearm" but an "antique firearm". Below is the cut and paste:

Universal Citation: CA Penal Code § 16170 (2021)
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16170.
(a) As used in Sections 30515 and 30530, “antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured before January 1, 1899.

(b) As used in Section 16520, Section 16650, subdivision (a) of Section 23630, paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 27505, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, “antique firearm” has the same meaning as in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.

(c) As used in Sections 16531 and 17700, “antique firearm” means either of the following:

(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before the year 1898. This type of firearm includes any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.


So the lead ban is for firearms, and antique firearms includes our beloved flinters and cappers so I'm not seeing how this could be applied to us. Help me out here I'm not a lawyer!

 

[DCAN]

I'd be a bit cautious to hang my hat on the word, "antique". Afterall it's one of the fascist states we are talking about. If it were me, I'd consult an attorney, and keep his card handy for when some woke F&W officer decides to make an example out of you.
Oregon has been talking about the lead ban for some time. I'm sure it will happen one of these days.

 

[RB POWELL]

In doing some research on the lead-free requirement for hunting in California, I found on the CDFW's own website that "Since pellet rifles are not firearms, the use of lead projectiles in pellet rifles is not prohibited."

I then researched the specific law requiring lead-free projectiles for hunting, and again on CDFW's website they state:
"Effective July 1, 2019, nonlead ammunition is required when taking any wildlife with a firearm anywhere in California.

In October 2013, Assembly Bill 711 was signed into law requiring the use of nonlead ammunition when taking any wildlife with a firearm in California. "

I then researched the definition of "antique firearm" and came across CA Penal Code Definition Section 16170 which under this definition a black power rifle flintlock, matchlock, percussion cap etc. EVEN IF a replica manufactured after 1898 is not a "firearm" but an "antique firearm". Below is the cut and paste:

Universal Citation: CA Penal Code § 16170 (2021)
PreviousNext
16170.
(a) As used in Sections 30515 and 30530, “antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured before January 1, 1899.

(b) As used in Section 16520, Section 16650, subdivision (a) of Section 23630, paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 27505, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, “antique firearm” has the same meaning as in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.

(c) As used in Sections 16531 and 17700, “antique firearm” means either of the following:

(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before the year 1898. This type of firearm includes any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.


So the lead ban is for firearms, and antique firearms includes our beloved flinters and cappers so I'm not seeing how this could be applied to us. Help me out here I'm not a lawyer!

I'm thinking a lot of the militarized, clad in black head to toe, law enforcers are looking for ways to to use their training and toys. It's only natural. I would want to have ironclad conformation, if such a thing exists, that you aren't violating any edicts.

 

[DCAN]

I would want to have ironclad conformation

Like a letter from CDFW stating the rule does NOT apply to "antique firearms". All ML clubs in California should band together and get this issue settled for the good of all their members.

 

[Powderedtoastman]

I'd be a bit cautious to hang my hat on the word, "antique". Afterall it's one of the fascist states we are talking about. If it were me, I'd consult an attorney, and keep his card handy for when some woke F&W officer decides to make an example out of you.
Oregon has been talking about the lead ban for some time. I'm sure it will happen one of these days.

Definitely agreed, the jackboot gestapos love flexing on the common man. I'm just comparing the legal definition of "firearm" vs. the legal definition of "antique firearm". Also waiting for an answer from the law offices I'm consulting about this.

 

[DCAN]

Just for the heck of it, I just called the wardens service in California and asked if "antique firearms" like flintlock rifles were exempt from the lead projectile law. I was told the law is,"black and white" and that lead is prohibited no matter what the firearm is.

 

[Powderedtoastman]

Just for the heck of it, I just called the wardens service in California and asked if "antique firearms" like flintlock rifles were exempt from the lead projectile law. I was told the law is,"black and white" and that lead is prohibited no matter what the firearm is.

Which office did you call? I'd love to have a conversation with the same person you spoke with.

 

[Powderedtoastman]

Well I answered my own question, but there is still a way though...

CA Penal Code Section 16520​

(a)​

As used in this part, “firearm” means a device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

 

[DCAN]

Which office did you call? I'd love to have a conversation with the same person you spoke with.

I called the main number on the web site and spoke to a woman. #916-653-4094

 

[deerstalkert]

i will take bets at 10 to 1 that muzzleloader is not exempt.

 

[Youngblood]

Im shocked that a pellet gun might be exempt, being you can hunt turkeys and such with them.

All the while you can plug thousands of rounds of lead all over the place at targets but cant put one round in a deer.

 

[DCAN]

Im shocked that a pellet gun might be exempt, being you can hunt turkeys and such with them.

All the while you can plug thousands of rounds of lead all over the place at targets but cant put one round in a deer.

One step at a time. The'll outlaw the use of lead for target shooting soon. Then any shooting in a national forest, then..............

 

[Youngblood]

Surprised they aint going after lead fishing weights, ya know cuz the waterfowl.

Or is it because it has nothing to do with guns?

 

[wganz]

Or is it because it has nothing to do with guns?

One does not resist tyranny with fishing tackle.
Control is their god, and neither logic or legality is going to stand in their way.

 

[Okie Hog]

I'd be a bit cautious to hang my hat on the word, "antique"

YES!!!!!
The CA lead ban law took effect on 1 July, 2019.
i've hunted hogs on my cousins CA ranch on two occasions since the law took effect. i used a .54 caliber TC New Englander rifle. The crush rib sabot held a Barnes 225 grain monolithic bullet.

I was checked by a game warden: No problems.

 

[SmokepoleSam]

Surprised they aint going after lead fishing weights, ya know cuz the waterfowl.

Or is it because it has nothing to do with guns?

New York banned the sale of lead weights years ago, but I'm not a fisherman so I don't know if they also banned the use of them.