Remoing a breech plug

[mudd turtle]

I have a problem that I think will require the removeable of the breech plug.. I was checking the fit of some round ball that I had to see how much force to exzert to get the ball down the barrel. I have found that the ball was too hard. Then when I tried to pull the ball I could not get the bullet puller to get a good grip on the ball and I had pushed the ball all the way down the barrel. I short there is a ball in the barrel and the bullet puller will not get a good enough grip on the ball to pull it out plus the ball itself is bigger than it should be. If I can get the breechplug out I can puch the ball out and then have the barrel slugged to determine the right size for the ball. I have not attempted to do this work yet . I thought I would run my idea past some of you first. I will look for a witness mark on the breechplug and the barrel so when the plug comes out it can be lined up again when the work is done. A friend asked me why I just din't shoot the ball out the barrel. I had put spray oil down the barrell hopeing that it would help me push the ball out. I tried to put powder behind the ball but it would not blow out-because of the oil maybe'. help if you can or will and thanks in advance. Mudd Turtle.

 

[gmww]

Just a couple of suggestions. Ever consider using the Co2 gizmo for getting the ball and powder out? Also some powder just behind the nipple area if there isn't a lot of oil might work it out.

 

[Tracy]

What brand of gun is it?What is the nipple size?

 

[mikelange]

If you're dealing with an octagon barrel, with sights in place, a witness mark isn't actually necessary. This is assuming the tang of the breechplug is in line with the top flat of the barrel, as it ought to be. When reassembled, the tang and top flat should line up as they were before. Witness marks are useful when dealing with breeched barrels that haven't yet had the sights, underlugs, and/or underrib (on a halfstock rifle) installed; it's possible, usually due to carelessness, to stop a flat or two short of the breechplug being properly snugged down, when replacing it.

That said, a witness mark isn't ever a bad idea, so if you feel better about it, by all means add one if it isn't already there.

If you have a Traditions, CVA, or Jukar rifle of either halfstock or fullstock configuration, you will need to remove the drum that the nipple threads into before attempting to unscrew the breechplug. The drum threads serve as a form of lock screw to hold the breechplug rigidly in place. You'll destroy your sanity and possibly the breechplug, too, if you try to take it out by itself.

Breechplugs that have been in place for awhile are often pretty stubborn about staying put. You may have to soak the breech end of the barrel for a couple of days in good penetrating oil to get the threads to part ways. Applying heat (a propane torch works adequately well) to the outside of the barrel's breech end usually breaks the rust and crud loose, but that should only be done as a last extreme and, in your case, since you mention having attempted to force powder in behind the stuck ball, the application of fire would probably be highly unwise.

"Huh. I guess I musta got a few grains in there, after all.... Too bad 'bout the dog...."

Last but not least, use a smooth-jawed and preferably brass-padded vise to clamp the barrel, and a wrench that fits properly, no slop whatsoever, on the breechplug. If at all possible, avoid applying the wrench to any of the upper flats (in the case of a patent-style breech) or the top of the breechplug tang (in the case of a simple fixed-tang plug), so that if metal gets bruised it won't show when the gun's put back together. A crescent wrench that will snug up tight works better on fixed-tang plugs than an open-end box wrench, for the simple reason the jaws are longer and will apply pressure to a larger area of the sides of the plug. Bear in mind, also, that in the case of the fixed-tang plugs in particular, you most certainly can shear the tang off the threaded plug if you exert too much force. Been there, done that. Back off and allow more penetrating oil and time to work for you. When you do get the plug out, clean the threads of both the plug and barrel and apply some sort of anti-sieze medium (wax rubbed onto the threads of the plug after they've been warmed with a propane torch works well) to make it much easier to remove the plug in future.

Good luck!

 

[mudd turtle]

I forgot to say the rifle is a flint lock. I did try to put powder in the vent hole but just got flashes. Will the oil dry out so I could attempt this way of removeing the ball. Mudd Turtle.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Removing the breech plug should be the last desperate attempt after all else fails.

Try wrapping the jag with ball puller screw with masking tape or electrical tape, or fitting a leather washer, so that it fills the bore and holds the screw in the very center. Then, either tap it with a mallet to dimple the lead for the screw to grab or run the rammer down hard a couple times to dimple it. If you're running off the edge of the ball it won't "catch".

I use a file to dress up my puller screws so they are sharp and have a good bite.

If you have a removable vent you can get a Zirk fitting at a hardware or auto store and use grease to blow the ball out.

 

[mudd turtle]

It is hard to tell what brand if any the flint lock is. The lock seems to be an old lock used to put a flint rifle togeather. It has a wooden patch box and I think it is a Pennsylvania style. Mudd Turtle.

 

[Martin Ullman]

WELL THE WAY I DO IT IS TO MAKE SURE THE BALL IS SEATED ALL THE WAY DOWN THE BARREL.THEN TAKE THE NIPPLE OUT AND PUT AS MUCH 4F IN THE HOLE AND PUT NIPPLE IN AND SHOOT IT DOWN RANGE.A LITTLE POWDER IS CHEAPER THAN COMPRESSED AIR.CAUTION THE BALL HAS TO ALL THE WAY DOWN SO YOU CAN'T GET IT ANY MORE DOWN.IF IT IS NOT YOU COULD BULGE YOUR BARREL WHEN IT IS SHOT OFF.

 

[gmww]

I'd go to Wally world and get the Co2 discharger. It's called SAF-T Unloader by Genuine Innovatons inc. They have a flintlock adapter that will fit. If Wally world doesn't have it check out at Cabelas.

 

[boar]

Maybe you could dry the oil out by using some alcohol and air? Dilly

 

[tx50cal]

Why not just use an air comresser? I have removed a few dry balls with mine. Just make sure of your target and remove the vent liner insert an air nozzle and let the air pressure push the ball out.

 

[Zonie]

Mudd: Random thoughts on your problem, but first, forgive the guys for continuing to talk about nipples and such.
You've posted your problem on the Percussion Forum so they are answering like it was a Percussion gun.
As all Percussion Shooters are great guys, we'll try to help you with your problem.

The CO2 idea is the best one (if you can find one).

As the gun is a Flinter and the breech is contaminated with oil, shooting the ball out probably won't work unless you buy some Disk Brake Cleaner (with a tube type nozzle).
Disk Brake Cleaner breaks oil down so it might dry the area. If it does desolve the oil, some dry powder might be worked thru the vent.
If you try this, don't be in a hurry. Work in as much powder as you can.

As it is a Flintlock I have to ask, does it have a Vent Liner in it or is it just a drilled hole in the side of the barrel?
The reason for the question is if it has a Vent Liner, it is IMO, safer and easier to consider removing it rather than the breech plug.
You may damage it, but it isn't a real big thing to replace one of these.

As the others have said, I have to second the idea that removing the breech plug should be the absolute last resort.
If not done carefully it can screw up the whole barrel. As someone mentioned, some folks have even twisted off the back off of the breech plug and still had the dam thing sitting in the barrel scowling at them.

If the gun doesn't have a vent liner installed, and the CO2 discharger doesn't do the job (it should), consider installing a 1/4-28 threaded Vent liner. They cost about $3 plus $5 or so for a tap and the correct size drill.
If you install a vent liner, after you've drilled thru one wall of the barrel (and maybe the backside of the ball) where the existing vent is located, you can tap the threads.
With the threads tapped, the grease fitting mentioned above will screw in easily (finger tight only). Then, using a grease gun (or taking the barrel to a filling station that has Lube equipment) the ball can easily be forced out.

For further information about the finish installation of the Vent Liner, ask us over on the Builders Forum area of the MLF.
We've walked a lot of folks thru lots worse things than this.

 

Zonie; I have removed many breechplugs in my day and you taught me the greese gun bit. Thank you. seems like I learn something new every day. I have found that teflon plumbing tape applied to the breech plug will help with future removal, used it on all my guns and it is great. Lonesomebob

 

[barebackjack]

A gentlemen at the range showed me a jag he had made out of a larger finishing nail, he affixes this to the end of his range rod, and whacks on it to tap a pilot dimple for the ball-puller, says it works on even hard lead.

Boone

 

[hollandbriscoe]

If all else fails I have removed a stuck ball before by attaching a counter sink to the end of a long rod and slowly removed some lead a little at a time. Mind you I turned the counter sink by hand I did not use a drill but I was able after a couple of hours to get the ball loose to where it could be pulled with a ball puller. Just be sure to make up some sort of rig to keep the counter sink centered so you don't bugger up your bore.

Jack