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Smoothbore Accuracy

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KHickam

50 Cal.
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
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Hey - I was just wondering for giggles what you all think that a smoothbore should maintain for normal accuracy at 100 yds?

I put a rear sight on my fowler and I am able to keep all the rounds in the black at 25-40 yds - especially from the bench - but when I try to shoot at 100 yds even from the bench I am lucky to hit the gong 2 out of 5 shots.

Why the extreme difference in accuracy? Realizing of course, that one would not expect rifle accuracy at a 100 yds with a smoothbore.

But, I have read about and seen some guys that shoot extremely well with a smoothbore at those ranges and beyond.

Just curious and thought it would make a decent discussion - I wish I could hit the gong at 100 yds 4 of 5 times from the bench but not sure that I can make that happen. :thumbsup:
 
I stretched my Brown Bess out to 50 yards for the first time yesterday with disappointing results. Nine shots went into a 14" group, offhand, generally low and left. She shoots a little low and left at 25 yards too, but will often put 2 or more shots within an inch or two. It sure is multiplied at 50 yards!!
I hate to think that a barrel bending is in our future, but it may have to be done. First though, I think I'll enlarge the vent hole to try to speed ignition time and reduce flinch movement.
BTW, I'm shooting 80 grains of Goex Ffg, primed with 3Fg, a .715 RB, and .025 blue jean denim. The patches can be re-used: the powder hardly damages them, but they get frayed after a few uses.
 
Keith: What is your bore size, and what kind of load are you using?

There are two different but inter-related problems with accuracy at 100 yards shooting a round ball out of a smoothbore. If you are firing a load that sends the ball out the muzzle at much over the Speed of Sound( 1100 fps) then that ball has to come down through that transonic zone where it will be battered and buffeted about by the vacuum that is slowly disintegrating behind the ball. Not good for accuracy after the ball comes down through the sound barrier.

Second, the round ball is like a baseball pitcher throwing a knuckle ball. It does not rotate, or spin, so at some point when it loses enough speed, it begins to move off in some other direction. Just as a good Major League Pitcher can time that throw so that the ball dances away from its flight path just before it reaches the batter at home plate, a round ball will start wandering just before the 80-100 yard mark, depending on a lot of different factors. The only way you can know what's going on with your gun is to use a portable target stand, and move it back in 10 yard increments, shooting a 3-5 shot group at each distance off a rest. That way you eliminate YOU as a variable as much as possible, and find out what that particular ball/patch/ powder charge combination does in your gun at different distances.

It is very difficult to get a round ball gun to shoot very tight groups at 100 yds. Many guns have huge front sights, so you can't hold a tight group with that gun. For long range shooting, you need a finer front sight in most cases. You need a good rear sight that allows you to see enough daylight on each side of the front sight so that you eye can aligned the sights with your target at those distances.

Always ask the best shooter you know to shoot a group with your gun, and then watch you while you shoot a group. His may be smaller or larger than yours, but he may also see something you are doing wrong that is contributing to your large group.

With a good shooter trying your gun, and checking your load, and loading procedures, he should be able to tell you where you are making mistakes that are affecting your accuracy. It may be in how your barrel is bedded, or not bedded. It may be loose screws. It may be loose sights. It may be a rickety bench, or rest. It may be bad light, or too much light shining on your sights. A glare of light off the front sight is usually bad for shooting small groups. As the Earth rotates around the sun, the angle of that shine changes, and the POI will change with it. Add problems inherent in the width of the front sight, compared to the target you are shooting at, and your group is going to open up.

I use a business card, stapled to the target so a corner makes a Diamond aiming point for me to use when sighting on the target. I bring the sight up into the card from below, and then slowly raise the sight until it obscures the point of the diamond. Then I squeeze off the rest of the trigger pull and fire the gun. This works to produce much better groups for me in a variety of lighting conditions, with both smoothbores, and rifles. A scope sight would be better, but I am not going to put a scope on my smoothbore! I know of men who have used radiator hose clamps purchased in the auto supply section of their farm stores, to clamp a scope mount temporarily to their ML barrels to test loads. They do this to eliminate their own human mistakes as much of possible while they work out a most accurate load. They also use a chronograph so that they can see how different loading techniques affect the accuracy and SDV.

For instance, I found that if I used a fiber wad behind my PRB in my rifle, that I got a substantial improvment in both velocity, and SDV, and the POI raised about an inch above where the ball was striking without the card wad. The group size has shrunk considerable, which I credit to the lower standard deviation in velocity(SDV) using the card wads.

I hope this helps.
 
Ck down about 20 lines down on here to my 100 yds for more on this, i wa trying it with a scoped 20/62 -600 ball , all I havent tryed is the 610 ball I use in one other underhammer and thats because Ive spent a week in hospital. Look down line for fw on 17th I think fred :hatsoff: (adding to the above , I got a few shots off useing a different patch and it showed MUCH better not grp but keeeping them together at 100)
 
My personal opinion is that acceptable accuracy in a smoothbore at 100 yards is different than a rifle. A smoothbore is shooting well at 100 yards if it can consistently hit a gong that is 30 inches across. If you are hoping to keep it in the black in a 10 inch circle then you are asking a lot.

Many Klatch
 
Paul - I was shooting 90 gr 3F. I have a thin front sight. I have some problems - in that I need to re-learn how to shoot a flintlock off hand again - my normal hold on a centerfire rifle doesn't work with the smoothbore - not as steady -in that the smoothbore has much more barrel forward of my hand than my rifles.

Many Klatch - didn't measure how big the gong I was shooting at was - but sometimes my gun would shoot high - sometimes low sometimes left and sometimes right - about 2 out of 5 shots hit the gong at 100 yds with a bench rest sandbags and a butt bag.

Just curious :thumbsup:
 
As inmy 100 yd test with scope 2 hits out of 5 in a 8 to 10" target is about right,even with the scope cranked all the way the .600s wouled go all over for a few shots then hit home again. :shake: Fred :hatsoff:
 
Quite simply, if you want to hit something "small" at 100 yds, get a rifle. You will hear anecdotes of folks that can shoot "as good as a rifle" at all ranges--believe it at your own risk. I do have a close friend who has a small bore smooth gun (.50) that shoots nearly like a rifle out to 50 yds, just patched ball load like a rifle. Others have magic formulas with or without wads, etc...each gun is different. IMHO 60 -70 yds is about max for a smoothie to be sure of your hits. That's why rifles became so popular...
 
The only thing I have found that " tightens " --- I hate to use that word in this context, consider how large a " pattern " my gun shoots at 100 yds.--- is to make sure my load is pushing the ball out the barrel at under 1100 fps. The faster I try to push the ball, the wider the spread down range. From the targets I have shot from 50 yds, to 100yds, in 10 yard increments, It becomes clear that the knuckle ball is in charge the further down range you get. And, if you try to pusha ball out at 1400-1600 fps. it seems to slow faster, and you get a wider dispersion. The dispersion doesn't begin as soon as with the lighter loads, but once it begins( about 80 yards) the balls disperse more rapidly and give a much larger " pattern " at 100 yds. The lighter loads hit much lower than POA, so that becomes, or at least became, a problem for me and my testing. I have not tried to see how much more tight the pattern will get at 100 yds, if I reduce my load below 2 3/4 drams in my 20 ga. with that .600 RB. Yet. I need to stack some targets on top of each other, so I can have both an aiming point, and a POI target much lower on the backstop.
 
My experience? The smaller the bore the more accurate a smooth bore is. I've yet to see a brown bess that I would call "accurate".
Things that have always worked for me with smooth bores: The tightest patch/ball combo that you can get down the bore the more accurate the load. The longer the barrel the better.
Your B bess lock is slow...it's always going to be slow no matter how big your vent is. Part of the reason Brown bess's are so slow is the size of the lock. I've built 12 bores that shot ball extreamly well, but they have locks that are extreamly fast.
 
"You will hear anecdotes of folks that can shoot "as good as a rifle" at all ranges--believe it at your own risk." :thumbsup: thats why I tryed the 100 yds with scope, just 1 time to many saw on here 5 shots in a small grp and flat didnt belive it I dont even more now. Fred :hatsoff:
 
Mike Brooks said:
"...The tightest patch/ball combo that you can get down the bore the more accurate the load..."
I agree with you and also add that I believe driving them under a full head of steam keeps them going straighter further.

I've never even tried a PRB shot from a .54 or .62cal past 50yds, but have made the comment that "mine shoot like a rifle to the 50yds I've zeroed them at"...(GM smoothbore barrels with rifle sights) and stand by that[url] comment...made[/url] in the context that they were far more accurate than some of the posts I've seen about smoothbore accuracy...not meaning that I literally measured group sizes with a micrometer to compare them to a group size fired from a .62cal rifle.

(uhmmmm.....although now I could because I now also have a .62cal 'rifle')
 
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Not meaning to start any flames here or disrespect anyone in this thread, but I just don't get it and never will. When I get geared up to shoot my flintlock rifle, and I do mean geared up as it's not like dropping a few rounds down the loading tube of my model '06 and start plinking away,I have a reasonalbe expectation of actually hitting at what I'm aiming at.
 
Although, I understand the limitations of a smoothbore (and I think 100 yd shot is really pushing the envelope on it) I like shooting in friendly BP shoots and I like to shoot with the rifles and realize - oh, well - its a smoothbore. But, once in a while I like to hit big gongs out there - and offhand - I'm not going to much I believe.

I can get a tighter patch/ball and see how that works thanks guys. :thumbsup:
 
I can get a tighter patch/ball and see how that works thanks guys.
That may help, but it's probably the slow lock time that's holding you back more than anything else.
 
Hmmm - I have had faster but this fowler's lock is pretty fast - seems almost as fast as my old rifle's when I had more guns and younger eyes. :wink:
 
I too expect to hit what I aim at with my flintlock rifles--at least within reasonable ranges--but we're talking about smoothbores here. Accurate work with a smoothbore tends to take place at shorter ranges, especially as one's eyes get older.
 

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