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To much is made of short arbors

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Mike, regarding your posts 137 and 138 about me, I'm 76 years old and do know at least a little about Colt history, and quite a bit about American history in general.
When I asked if the govt bought Colt I was making the point that the owners of any company are the ones that make the decisions here in the U.S.A.

According to Ware's Remington book in 1862 the army was buying Colts for $14 and Remingtons for $16, sometimes as much as $20. Remington had a lot of trouble making the quantity needed but did get the price down to Colt's level after a while.

These discussions aren't worth getting personal about, or trying to insult someone.
Jim, no "ill will" ment but asking if the gov. bought Colt sounded a little juvenile ( borderline SA 😅). Following that question with why would they want a government contract / why not submit more open-top revolvers ( again, they already HAD a brand new '71 Open Top) seemed like more of the same so I reacted to it as such.
For the record, my momma taught me to respect my elders so being as I'm 10 yrs younger than you. I apologize if I was "out of line".

Mike
 
Did the Walker have a wedge adjustment screw in the end of the arbor when spitting it out ?
Wonder why my tool steel wedges don't show any signs of battering or barrel mortise enlargement .
Soft wedges will batter as well as pucker barrel slots. Did you notice

Ballshooter,
That's fantastic shooting!!! Nice work!
Thank you Sir the pistol did the work I just pointed and pulled the trigger plus wearing a cowboy hat probably helped.
 
It always ends with an arbor measuring contest 😳
Pete453's quote says it all !

Ball Shooter's tite-group & 45D's replica tuning expertise wins the arbor debate contest :thumb:
If replica revolvers held the same specs & tolerances' used on original Colts & Remington's there would be little need to make any corrections.
 
Pete453's quote says it all !

Ball Shooter's tite-group & 45D's replica tuning expertise wins the arbor debate contest :thumb:
If replica revolvers held the same specs & tolerances' used on original Colts & Remington's there would be little need to make any corrections.
I really think that my test of pulling the barrel off an back on after each shot and to hold a group like that proved the arbor fixed helped 10 fold. Before the fix I would always get a flyer or two.
 
Tell me where your pistol shooting championships are held.
If hitting a 2” bullseye at 20 yards makes one a champion I want in on that shoot!
offhand? with a cap and ball with the worst sites ever put on a weapon? old guys shooting them half blind with cataracts then after surgery? would you have to shoot a one hole group off a horse at 100 yds to be a champ?
 
Well I can see you missed the point, of course the gun will still function! But why on earth would anyone want to have to use or carry around a set of gauges to get the gun to become “accurate for a shooter”? There are literally as many ways to fix the arbor issue as there are was to clean a muzzleloader! Many take little to no time or effort.

As for outdoor shooting experience, speak for yourself, your the one talking about using a set of gauges to make a gun “accurate for a shooter”. Either way I have to get back to working on my “outdoor shooting experience”! You have your self a good morning I know I am!
A wedge head gauge can be the size of a nickle and kept in a possible bag pocket or on a lanyard around your neck and takes maybe two seconds to use when bumping in the wedge at reassembly.
A feeler gauge is handy to have in the shooting box for all sorts of other measurements one may which to make but then I speak from a gunsmith/mechanic perspective.
Why is it so hard for you to see that this is a simple tool for short arbor guns that have not had the arbor end fit. This simple gauge would actually only need to be used if in a match situation as most folks in the field would clean, reassemble, give the wedge a bump and shoot away.
 
A wedge head gauge can be the size of a nickle and kept in a possible bag pocket or on a lanyard around your neck and takes maybe two seconds to use when bumping in the wedge at reassembly.
A feeler gauge is handy to have in the shooting box for all sorts of other measurements one may which to make but then I speak from a gunsmith/mechanic perspective.
Why is it so hard for you to see that this is a simple tool for short arbor guns that have not had the arbor end fit. This simple gauge would actually only need to be used if in a match situation as most folks in the field would clean, reassemble, give the wedge a bump and shoot away.
No offense but why not just fix the short arbor and use your tooled wedge. Personally I want my weapons to be as accurate as can be and take out any possible short comings no pun intended. My Uberti shot pretty good with the short arbor but not what I would call exceptional. BTW I would love to have a tooled wedge but I do not have the means to make.
 
No offense but why not just fix the short arbor and use your tooled wedge. Personally I want my weapons to be as accurate as can be and take out any possible short comings no pun intended. My Uberti shot pretty good with the short arbor but not what I would call exceptional. BTW I would love to have a tooled wedge but I do not have the means to make.
I have on my guns but the thread is for those who have not made the fix and shoot short arbor guns.
 
I'd sure like to see if this is actually occurring but I don't see how it can be and not tie up a cylinder in a short arbor gun as the arbor end fit gap is usually more than the barrel cylinder gap.!
The bounce back to neutral so as not to leave a tell tail gap at wedge back or barrel /cylinder seems very far fetched to me.
I would like to see it too. As to how it would not tie up the cylinder, I would set the gap with a feeler gauge as you do. Then, drop the spacer back in and shoot l again.

No offense but why not just fix the short arbor and use your tooled wedge. Personally I want my weapons to be as accurate as can be and take out any possible short comings no pun intended. My Uberti shot pretty good with the short arbor but not what I would call exceptional. BTW I would love to have a tooled wedge but I do not have the means to make.
This is my thoughts also. It didn't take long to fit the spacer, now it's done forever. I adjusted the front sight to conicals and my hunting load. This spring I found a brand new barrel assembly on eBay and fit that to the gun sighted in for round balls, complete with it's own personal spacer. It's not that big of a deal to fix the problem, so I did it. On my own guns I want them the way I want them, it only cost me my time. Your guns, your choice.
 
A wedge head gauge can be the size of a nickle and kept in a possible bag pocket or on a lanyard around your neck and takes maybe two seconds to use when bumping in the wedge at reassembly.
A feeler gauge is handy to have in the shooting box for all sorts of other measurements one may which to make but then I speak from a gunsmith/mechanic perspective.
Why is it so hard for you to see that this is a simple tool for short arbor guns that have not had the arbor end fit. This simple gauge would actually only need to be used if in a match situation as most folks in the field would clean, reassemble, give the wedge a bump and shoot away.
Seems like a lot of effort for something the occasional shooter can basically ‘fix’ with a little glue or epoxy and a washer or two. Or maybe they drill and tap a hole for a screw ‘locked’ in place with some Loctite.

And if one owns more than one gun, how are the various shims/feeler gauges kept from co-mingling, or is it a one size fits all?
 
Using a feeler gauge to get your wedge in "just right" isn't anywhere close to fixing the arbor length. All you're doing is leaving the wedge "just so" loose.

Mike
Oh Poppy-cock,no one is saying it is ! It's one means of establishing consistent wedge depth in a short arbor gun .
 
Seems like a lot of effort for something the occasional shooter can basically ‘fix’ with a little glue or epoxy and a washer or two. Or maybe they drill and tap a hole for a screw ‘locked’ in place with some Loctite.

And if one owns more than one gun, how are the various shims/feeler gauges kept from co-mingling, or is it a one size fits all?
Well, it's more complicated than just fitting the end of the arbor as the lower lug needs to be addressed as well or you will make a gun shoot high or low. If you pull the barrel back this includes the lower lug.
 
Well, it's more complicated than just fitting the end of the arbor as the lower lug needs to be addressed as well or you will make a gun shoot high or low. If you pull the barrel back this includes the lower lug.
So putting a shim on the end of the arbor or in the barrel hole that sets up the barrel and frame relationship exactly as your gauge does causes a ‘high or low’ POI problem? Please explain.
 
French Colonial, if you want to see a gun shot without the wedge in place, send me your favorite revolver, I will be glad to launch your barrel and probably your cylinder into the gravel at the range. And I'll even film it so everyone here can see the show. All at no charge, I'll provide the ammo. 🤣
 
So putting a shim on the end of the arbor or in the barrel hole that sets up the barrel and frame relationship exactly as your gauge does causes a ‘high or low’ POI problem? Please explain.
Any time one moves the barrel rearward via a shim, new wedge or wedge adjustment screw to tighten up barrel/cylinder gap, the lower lug must be shortened what ever amount is needed to maintain a uniform cylinder gap. If you only tighten the gap by wedge pull and do not adjust the lower lug height it cantilevers the barrel from the frame, pressuring the arbor upward and making the eylinder gap tighter at the top than at the bottom. This misaligns the chambers with the bore axis making guns shoot high.
Another aspect of tightening barrel/cylinder gap is relieving the barrel wedge slot at the front so it has clearance to move to the rear against the front side of the new wedge.
 
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Any time one moves the barrel rearward via a shim, new wedge or wedge adjustment screw to tighten up barrel/cylinder gap, the lower lug must be shortened what ever amount is needed to maintain a uniform cylinder gap. If you only tighten the gap by wedge pull and do not adjust the lower lug height it cantilevers the barrel from the frame, pressuring the arbor upward and making the eylinder gap tighter at the top than at the bottom. This misaligns the chambers with the bore axis making guns shoot high.
Another aspect of tightening barrel/cylinder gap is relieving the barrel wedge slot at the front so it has clearance to move to the rear against the front side of the wedge.
Appears we have a failure to communicate. The shim I am talking about just fills the gap/space between the end of the arbor and bottom of the hole in the barrel. If the shim isn’t there, driving the wedge in further pulls the barrel closer to the frame, closing up the distance between the barrel and frame. At some point there is no clearance between the barrel and the frame to allow the cylinder to rotate. Not good or desirable in my opinion. With the correct shim in place you can pound on the wedge with a mallet if you like, and the cylinder still turns freely with no binding or change to the cylinder gap. There are more concerns to consider, but let’s start with what is the purpose of your gauge, if not to set the cylinder gap on a gun with a short arbor gun so the cylinder is not jammed up? Not being rude, just curious. May be something to learn here.
 
Appears we have a failure to communicate. The shim I am talking about just fills the gap/space between the end of the arbor and bottom of the hole in the barrel. If the shim isn’t there, driving the wedge in further pulls the barrel closer to the frame, closing up the distance between the barrel and frame. At some point there is no clearance between the barrel and the frame to allow the cylinder to rotate. Not good or desirable in my opinion. With the correct shim in place you can pound on the wedge with a mallet if you like, and the cylinder still turns freely with no binding or change to the cylinder gap. There are more concerns to consider, but let’s start with what is the purpose of your gauge, if not to set the cylinder gap on a gun with a short arbor gun so the cylinder is not jammed up? Not being rude, just curious. May be something to learn here.
The rear of the" barrel" slot draws the barrel rearward via the wedge cam-ed against the "arbor" slot but the front of the "barrel" slot limits how deep the new wedge can go plus limiting the rearward travel against the front side of the wedge. The barrel can only move to the rear as much as the clearance between the front of the "barrel" slot and the front side of the new wedge contact allows. This is the reason the front of the "barrel" slot must be elongated when a wider wedge is made. The wider wedge needs a wider barrel slot to go deeper and pull the barrel rearward. To go deeper it needs the slot made wider at the front. I say deeper but actually increased width on a five degree taper is whats actually occurring.
The width of the "barrel" slot will regulate how deep the new wider wedge can be driven in and how far it can cam the barrel to the rear.
If the barrel is moving rearward at firing in short arbor guns I would expect a cylinder tie up. I've never seen nor heard of this happening.
I don't ever remember cylinder gap changes or tie ups ( other than normal count fouling related) occurring in my short arbor guns before end fitting them.
 
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