Traditional M/L Guns from India

[TobJohn]

According to the RA collection page for the gun, Rick was right on the money. It’s a combination bow and matchlock.

 

[TobJohn]

I know- they launched the hook over a wall and climbed up like Batman and Robin…..

Does that make the British a Batman villian?

“Riddle me this Sepoy:
what oinks and moos, you bite it, but it’s bite is worse than it’s bark?”
“your cartridges!”

 

[hectorintca]

Hi John

The pan is forged with the barrel as well as the rear sight. I would think this would be difficult to do. But every Torador barrel I've seen is made in this manner.

The serpentine (match holder) and trigger mechanism is very simple. A slotted hole is bored through the stock and allows the serpentine portion to be mounted a single pin.

Barrels were held to the stock with bands made of brass, iron, wire, and even rattan (rope). LOL A combination of what was available and the builder's technique.

Here is a good, short introduction to these guns, per Pukka's mention above:



RickView attachment 182903View attachment 182904

This is so interesting. Does anyone know if the Torador's in the video, are available for purchase?

 

[rickystl]

According to the RA collection page for the gun, Rick was right on the money. It’s a combination bow and matchlock.

Thanks John

So my memory is not completely gone yet. LOL Still, that grappling style hook is a mystery.

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

Thanks John

So my memory is not completely gone yet. LOL Still, that grappling style hook is a mystery.

Rick

Yeah… the museum says it’s to attach the bow, but like how does that actually work…

 

[rickystl]

This is so interesting. Does anyone know if the Torador's in the video, are available for purchase?

Hi Hector

There are many originals for sale today here in the U.S.

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

Fagan arms has one that I was considering, before I decided to stick to a couple of European replicas.

No idea how good the price is. The forum has rules against directly linking to seller websites.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Maybe that hook SWIVELS to hold the bow riser?????? Those 2 little 'tulip' shaped ends (on the 2 lower prongs) may 'snap' over and lock to the top of the finial for the sling swivel escutcheon?

 

[TobJohn]

That looks very plausible, but strange the maker felt it necessary to have it rotate.

 

[Sam squanch]

It’s a bat-a-rang……

 

[springfield art]

I have another question that isn't related to the design of the gun. Expanding on the end of your post, does anyone know how these were employed in battle? Were Indian gun armed soldiers in their own units and firing by rank? I have fairly limited knowledge on pre English Indian history, but I have seen mention that sword and shield armed troops existed through the 19th century, so I assume there was some sort of mixed infantry combat? I do not know how many Indian members we have, but there were an impressive amount of area participation in the Ottoman thread.

You'll note that they still kept using swords and daggers, just sayin'.....I wonder if these awkward guns were more for show than anything; one shot and draw your blade!

 

[Sam squanch]

Could this hook have been of use for shooting from the back of an elephant? Somehow hooked into a harness?

 

[TobJohn]

I think I figured it out:

The bow goes in the front. The hooks allow the lashing to more easily be attached and removed for storing/travelling. From my 5 minute google search, India widely used composite bows, so the shape of the front of the hooks could be more natural for fitting that design. This way, the substantial bolting of the hook and wood stock support directly absorb the force of the bow.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

That works! ... I think ....

 

[TobJohn]

Now someone needs to figure out where the bolts/arrows go. If anyone is planning to visit the Royal Armouries, the gun is located on the bizarrely hard to find 5th floor.

 

[Sam squanch]

Do the arrows go in the ramrod hole? Look up Slurbow…..

 

[TobJohn]

Do the arrows go in the ramrod hole? Look up Slurbow…..

That looks like a very good possibility

 

[Pukka Bundook]

I believe the bow butts up against the flat area and whipped in place using the hooks, as TobJohn says and shows above. (Post 173)

 

[cyten]

Some period photos

 

[TobJohn]

Some period photos

View attachment 242847View attachment 242848

Matt Easton has recently released several videos on Indian sword fighting and 19th century Indian sword and shield vs English sword. May be of interest to some people here.

His titles and thumbnails are clickbaity, but the actual content is informative.