Traditional muzzleloading on the wane?

[Brian6396]

I would say it is normal to be passionate about things that really impressed you in your youth. I blame clint Eastwood for my love of single action revolvers.

im not a paying member because I dont have, dont want a paypal account. If I could get the full member benefits by check or normal credit card transaction I would have already done so.

 

[Jumpshot]

I think the advent of the modern inlne (and the ammo that goes with it) is a large contributor to the decline of traditional. If it weren't for that, everyone who gets into muzzleloaders to extend their deer season would be doing so with traditional gear. There would be much more demand for it and all these companies wouldn't be dropping their traditional guns in favor of inlines, which is the big money maker now.

I don't blame someone for trying to invent a better mousetrap. I blame the various state fish and game departments for allowing something that was only designed in an effort to circumvent the rules and defeat the purpose of a primitive season in the first place. The increase in revenue is all that matters to them, so there ya go. They allow it, people do it, and eventually the original point is lost.

I know that's not the only contributor to the decline, but I think it's a big one.

 

[Walks with fire]

The nice thing about PA is that so far they have kept the flinter season which comes after Christmas. Allowing a scope on a muzzleloader is getting pretty darn close to a centerfire rifle. It's mostly because people want to extend range which I never felt was needed for the most part here. Other places sure; power at longer ranges helps alot.

 

[54ball]

As far as Traditional things being on the wane, It's not just muzzleloading but many other things that are traditional in American life, for instance the family.

When a populace is subjected to what only can be considered as anti-American propaganda and subversive indoctrination 24-7, it has to have an affect and we see it.

 

[tatman731]

I dont get annoyed at the modern muzzle loaders when I go to the range. Its the ones with the Rambo guns that drive me crazy. Everything camo and black. The best camo I ever used was wool with a plaid pattern in earthtone colors. That would look great on a rifle. they empty a thirty round magazine all over the range everytime they step to the line. Same with their handguns. I was a Marine special unit sniper for 13 years and still dont know why they just have to have those type of guns. Most would never use them for their intended purpose. I love traditional muzzleloaders as a work of art,a supreme hunting tool and just overall joy to own and shoot. They will surely kill a zombie as ggod as the others. I think just like classical music there will always be certain people that enjoys wood and metal fitted properly together,and the smell of black powder in the morning. :grin:

 

[tecum-tha]

One of the key factors is teaching the kids. And I mean hands on and sometimes with your own money if you can spare it. Also important is the age. Under age 10 is preferable.
ML has one big enemy, and this is the unaffordability of a quality gun to a lot of starters. Then there is the lack of good publicly available information to show people how to shoot the darn things accurately.
Another one is the available information about ML clubs. Most have no website and if they have one, it is mostly outdated. If you don't have a website you will not be found at all.
Posting contact information with a telephone number is not sufficient. A website needs to have the club rules, annual dues, work times etc. available.
Doug Schoultz papers are very helpful and probably kept a lot of people in our ranks.
I fear Dougs information will be unavailable when he may not be around anymore.
On traditional archery forums, you often find a "guide" for starters solid information. I think something like that should be available here and from other organizations, too.

 

[Billnpatti]

TML is unquestionably on the decline. One has only to look at the declining membership numbers at NMLRA, the decline in the number of traditional muzzleloading clubs throughout the U.S. and the decline in the sales of traditional muzzleloading guns. There appears to be an increase in the number of people who hunt with muzzleloading rifles but the vast majority of them are buying and hunting with the new inline rifles. They hunt with a muzzleloader not for the enjoyment of doing it the way our ancestors did it but because the muzzleloading season gives them some extra hunting time.

Can the decline be turned around? I don't know. But our only hope is to bring folks into the sport by inviting them to shoot with us. Get the youth interested by taking them with us and letting them shoot a small bore rifle to see how much fun it can be. Don't make the mistake of handing them a large bore rifle with a maximum charge in it just to impress them with the muzzle blast and the recoil. Stupid, really stupid. Another thing that would give traditional muzzleloading a boost would be a couple of great movies like The Last of The Mohicans. I don't know what the earning figures were nor how the critics treated it but it was a good movie with an accurate depiction of that period of time. Things like that catch the public's eye and they want to be like the hero in the movie. Once that spark is there, all we need to do is to fan it into a flame.....get them to the range or rendezvous and show, teach and cultivate that interest. If we don't, we are going to be a small bunch of wrinkled old farts shooting by ourselves and if the interest isn't there, the many businesses who cater to the TML trade will go away. Let's not kid ourselves, TML is circling the drain right now.

 

[Shotgun232]

I would tend to disagree with ya there, since I am under the age 20 and I have just recently purchased my third BP gun. I do own some modern firearms, however a vast majority of my guns are old military surplus. I do need to get a few old BP guns, but that is not in the near future.....

I do not know of anyone my age who is also into traditional BP, yet that is mostly because I am living on campus and not many people here have even shot a gun..... :rotf:

 

[Shotgun232]

Once again I disagree.
I am collage student, and have always loved everything old.
I forged my first blade when I was 10 years old and I made a bamboo fly rod when I was 13, and fished with flies that I had tied myself (have tied since I was about 7).
I do have some of new rifles, but the reason I was attracted to BP, and single shots is because they are cool. :wink:

I have hunted with a semi auto rifle before, and missed a lot of deer. Why? well I think it is because I knew I could make the second shot really quick and thus did not take a good first shot. I have never missed with my 50 cal. percussion cap, though I have only taken two deer with it.

Also I like to make my own stuff, and BP allows me to make my own stuff. I am working on my first build right now (I literally have to drive out to state land to work on the gun, b/c I cannot do that work on campus).

Have hope for the next generation, and besides if not many people are into BP in 20 years that means I can get all the really cool guns I want cheaply..... :hmm:

 

[cynthialee]

I have been thinking on this thread since it was posted....

I think the best way to save traditional aspects is to accept the inline crowd, seek them out as shooting partners and use the modern muzzle loader as the jump off vehicle to more traditional guns.

Teaching the youth can only go so far. My nephew is 14, a prime candidate to teach old guns to. But his interest isn't piqued at all. If it isn't a flashy video game or a potential eventual partner he has no interest.

I think that only a star studded Hollywood blockbuster where a black powder gun is vital to the hero surviving could save the game. Like JJ renewed interest in the 1970's. (I actually got to see it as a kid in a theater.) :grin:
But the guns will have to be integral to the story or survival of the characters to do the job.

As it stands...we are a dying breed. The concept of self sufficiency is becoming vilified. In the future during disasters I fear that those who don't wait for the governments help and help themselves will be criminalized.
Shoot deer or elk? You must be a blood thirsty barbarian who gets a jolly from death. You will need/be required to take extensive therapy if you ever inquire as to what the hunters food was like during the 'barbarian times'. And god forbid that you take matters into your own hand and kill a problem varmint.

anyways, I seem to have digressed into a rant, I'll drop it there.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The 1950's and Davy Crockett instilled the love of black powder guns in kids, not so much the adults. Most adults went through the depression and 2 world wars, they just wanted a solid modern but modest deer rifle. It wasn't until the boomers hit adulthood, that the big rebirth of muzzleloading took place in the 1970's. Every mail order outfit and chain store offered muzzleloaders in the mid and late 1970's.

 

[Billnpatti]

While you may have an interest in TML, you obviously know that you are not representative of other people your age since one thing that you said was "I do not know of anyone my age who is also into traditional BP,..." That is one of the main problems with the decline in TML, not enough young people like you who have an interest in TML. I am so very glad that you do have this interest and I hope that you will do all that you can to spread your interest to your friends. That is one of the main answers to stopping the decline in TML. :thumbsup:

 

[FishDFly]

Seems the standard answer to increasing traditional M/L shooting is increasing the number of youth shooters. I did shoot in one of the largest clubs in Texas and we had a fair number of youth shooters who would come twice a month in the 70s and 80s.

They would come with their fathers until 2 things occurred as pointed out by a club board member.
He said as soon as they received their driver’s license they would stop shooting. Second, as soon as they discovered girls, it was over if they ever returned. My 2 son’s followed the path.

Now they go off to school and get married. Shooting is now a function of available disposable income or lack of, which does not include shooting for newly married folks. Then comes kids and the full nest stage of life and shooting does not become important again until the kids are gone, empty nest stage of life and disposable income.

Folks in the past lived a more of a rural life, not any more. Single moms in the suburbs are not interested in shooting.

The real hope for youngsters is the 4H shooting program, their parents have different values.

In the past most traditional shooters were blue collar workers for the most part, they are becoming a minority today.

Lastly, our fine economy and unemployment is not helping either.

 

[Billnpatti]

Well stated. :hatsoff: I concur. :thumbsup:

 

[FishDFly]

Previously, some are my thoughts, some are my learning's from life and observations.

Some are learning's from my mentor from the PML in Pasadena, TX.

My mentor had a sign in his office given to him by his kids, "if you are so smart, how come you are not rich".

Doc was my mentor, my vet, he was a psychologist, he was married 3 times and had insight into stuff, a member of MENSA, and he taught me each Saturday with his instant coffee which I hated.

His thoughts in the 80s was, the traditional way is slowly going away, no matter what we did.

If I had the answer, I would share it trust me.

Thanks to Claude for doing what he does.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I think the best way to save traditional aspects is to accept the inline crowd, seek them out as shooting partners and use the modern muzzle loader as the jump off vehicle to more traditional guns.

Hmm, an analogy:

Will seeking out computer users, and showing them the joy of using a manual typewriter, really get them to switch? Or, will it convince them that they have an easier, more modern way?

I think if people have no interest in history, they won't see the point in switching to a more 'primitive' system. I think people have to be pre-disposed to make the switch and many just aren't

 

[galamb]

I think if people have no interest in history, they won't see the point in switching to a more 'primitive' system. I think people have to be pre-disposed to make the switch and many just aren't

I mostly agree with that statement, but sometimes people don't know they have an interest until they are exposed.

Many of us as kids were first exposed to "guns" by our fathers/uncles whoever, and in most cases our first shots were taken with a .22

At some point along the line, probably after "working through" a number of center fire rifles we got interested in muzzle loaders.

Maybe it was because it offered an extra deer season, or maybe because we saw Jeremiah Johnson, or had a parent/friend/relative that had one - however we were introduced, we took an interest - some more than others particularly with HC/PC models/replica's (choose your descriptive word).

The point is, if DAD or Uncle Bob hadn't handed us that .22 in the first place, maybe not many of us would be here today as either hunters, shooters, or muzzle loader fanatics.

So maybe if you can even convert 5% of the "zip gun" users, then that could be seen as nothing but positive - even a one percent conversion rate would be a bonus.

But if they are never "exposed" to more traditional rifles, they almost certainly "will not" develop any interest - even if they have a latent interest they are unaware of.

(just a different perspective)

 

[tom deinek]

On the wane for sure.

No bp stuff @ lgs.

Traditional gun listed for sale on net frequently get no responses.

Used TC/CVA used rifles now sell $75$1K. I bought a Renegade for $43 recently.

BP only interesting to old farts that saw Jeremiah Johnson when it came out.

 

[Alden]

It was just Savage Kingdom (subtitled The True Story of Jamestown, 1607). I read it. Excellent reading book. There were no lost colonist Indians from Roanoke though, sorry. But croatoan to you...

 

[Kylongrifle]

On the wane for sure.

No bp stuff @ lgs.

Traditional gun listed for sale on net frequently get no responses.

Used TC/CVA used rifles now sell $75$1K. I bought a Renegade for $43 recently.

BP only interesting to old farts that saw Jeremiah Johnson when it came out.

Though I can never find those kinds of prices on used smokepoles I will agree that nice muzzleloaders often set unsold now..Even though a really nice T/C (hawken,renegade etc) may well be worth $250 there arnt that many people whout there now willing to give it for a traditional. A lot of gun guys like to trade and they also know good and well that they will never get back the $550 they have to spend to get a great plains rifle..