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Yes, but I had to remove the flash suppressor and pistol grip, before registering the firearm.Black Jack said:
To start off....I'm not a "paying member" of this "Forum" because that's the way I want it.
There are multiple reasons why this "sport" is waning.
Mainly....younger people aren't interested in history or being "traditionalists" asre guns. The modern stuff is a lot simpler if you're a hunter why get involved w/a complicated gun and why "hang out" w/ a bunch of opininated, stubborn "old fogies"? Also...the many "other interests" are mind bogling and appeal to the younger minds. We just can't compete!
As evidenced in some of the replies, we argue amongst ourselves, when in reality we're all interested in the same "sport" or interest, but w/ slight differences which at times become paramount and actually form divisions w/in.
I was primarily a hunter and really didn't care what guns others in our MLer season camps used....we weren't there to argue the reasons or merits of the various guns....we were there to hunt. ALL MLers were welcome.
Actually, this "Forum" is selective asre topics and is much more restrictive than our deer or elk camp....I guess that's OK and is the sole responsiblity of the owner, but it also encourages further selectivity among the members as to what's "more traditional". This "elitist" mindset can be very devisive and for what reason? Just another reason why this "sport" is waning.
Let's face facts...we who prefer MLers are in a very small minority of the general population and an ever decreasing minority in the total number of gun owners.
Many differing views surface in a topic such as this and the devisiveness as to whether one is a "paying member" highlights a certain mindset that possibly if taken further, also is responsible for other devisiveness, including caplocks vs flints and conicals vs PRBs. Wonder why we're "losing" the war?.....Fred
There are multiple reasons why this "sport" is waning.
Mainly....younger people aren't interested in history or being "traditionalists" asre guns. The modern stuff is a lot simpler if you're a hunter why get involved w/a complicated gun and why "hang out" w/ a bunch of opininated, stubborn "old fogies"? Also...the many "other interests" are mind bogling and appeal to the younger minds. We just can't compete!
As evidenced in some of the replies, we argue amongst ourselves, when in reality we're all interested in the same "sport" or interest, but w/ slight differences which at times become paramount and actually form divisions w/in.
I was primarily a hunter and really didn't care what guns others in our MLer season camps used....we weren't there to argue the reasons or merits of the various guns....we were there to hunt. ALL MLers were welcome.
Actually, this "Forum" is selective asre topics and is much more restrictive than our deer or elk camp....I guess that's OK and is the sole responsiblity of the owner, but it also encourages further selectivity among the members as to what's "more traditional". This "elitist" mindset can be very devisive and for what reason? Just another reason why this "sport" is waning.
Let's face facts...we who prefer MLers are in a very small minority of the general population and an ever decreasing minority in the total number of gun owners.
Many differing views surface in a topic such as this and the devisiveness as to whether one is a "paying member" highlights a certain mindset that possibly if taken further, also is responsible for other devisiveness, including caplocks vs flints and conicals vs PRBs. Wonder why we're "losing" the war?.....Fred
Thanks for the feedback. It helps me to know how the members feel about the Forum, as we move forward. :thumbsup:flehto said:
This subject is discussed at local clubs, state clubs and at the National level with no resolve.
There are so many reasons why traditional muzzle loading is on the decline and I will not repeat all 100 reasons or so, that I have heard. Just have to accept that it is dying slowly along with 100 members of the NMLRA each year whom pass on each year.
As companies like T/C, CVA Navy Arms etc. have dropped their rifles, it is harder for working folks to join the ranks. When you jump from Lyman at $500 and poor workmanship to TVM at $1,000, this eliminates lots of folks from joining along with the lack of places to shoot their rifles.
Things do change, like it or not.
There are so many reasons why traditional muzzle loading is on the decline and I will not repeat all 100 reasons or so, that I have heard. Just have to accept that it is dying slowly along with 100 members of the NMLRA each year whom pass on each year.
As companies like T/C, CVA Navy Arms etc. have dropped their rifles, it is harder for working folks to join the ranks. When you jump from Lyman at $500 and poor workmanship to TVM at $1,000, this eliminates lots of folks from joining along with the lack of places to shoot their rifles.
Things do change, like it or not.
The depression of the sport comes from the Left's anti-gun influence. Even the fact that there is expanding gun ownership does, but that rising tide has not helped float our muzzleloading-boat because of its root cause.
We are at an interesting crossroads. It is undeniable that the Bicentennial influenced the current state of the hobby. Prosperity, industry and technology have made it a buyer's market, still, to participate in numerous related pastimes. People couldn't have begun to predict just what is available from India today alone three or four decades ago!
Hunting won't, but presuming we are allowed to recognize a sestercentennial it might give a shot in the arm to muzzleloading as will the 250th Rev War anniversaries. The 5th Column that is the 4th Estate will not be able to get out of their own way but to report the soft, mushy, distracting "news" of founding events a decade from now. But don't kid yourselves. It won't be an innoculation. A couple of generations from now...
Your grandchildren will almost certainly not see a United States of America Tricentennial celebration we'd recognize, if any, and there will be no muzzleloader hobby here by then. Enjoy it while we can. It is dusk!
We are at an interesting crossroads. It is undeniable that the Bicentennial influenced the current state of the hobby. Prosperity, industry and technology have made it a buyer's market, still, to participate in numerous related pastimes. People couldn't have begun to predict just what is available from India today alone three or four decades ago!
Hunting won't, but presuming we are allowed to recognize a sestercentennial it might give a shot in the arm to muzzleloading as will the 250th Rev War anniversaries. The 5th Column that is the 4th Estate will not be able to get out of their own way but to report the soft, mushy, distracting "news" of founding events a decade from now. But don't kid yourselves. It won't be an innoculation. A couple of generations from now...
Your grandchildren will almost certainly not see a United States of America Tricentennial celebration we'd recognize, if any, and there will be no muzzleloader hobby here by then. Enjoy it while we can. It is dusk!
Did I say that?flehto said:
Kylongrifle
40 Cal.
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I don't know the impact its had but that's a good point..Traditional muzzleloaders arnt as plentiful as they once were..No t/c, no CVA and where I live little to mostly NO traditionals on the racks..I haven't seen a flintlock on the rack in almost 15years. Were you could once find $150-$250 good shooting rifles now you find $1000 and up customs as your only choice..Not everyone,espically in rural areas are keen to order firearms over the net..They like to handle guns first, then pay..Im sure its a small % of the reason but its not helping..
galamb
58 Cal.
Perhaps if we produced a muzzle loading game for a PS3 (or is it PS4 now) and an IPhone APP, we would drum up some interest in the younger crowd.
Their whole life is now centered around a 2"x 4" screen...
(hashtag: burncharcoal)
Their whole life is now centered around a 2"x 4" screen...
(hashtag: burncharcoal)
There's still "Tradtions". Hopefully they continue to sell sidelocks.
Jumpshot
54 Cal.
galamb said:
There's a Civil War video game that was released a few years ago. I remember asking a clerk in a store about it who had played it. He said you could use a musket or a lever-action rifle. He said he preferred the lever gun, the musket was "no good" because it was too slow to load and fire. I walked away thinking "Yeah, that's the point. If you want rapid-fire capability, there are a billion other games about modern combat."
The game didn't do well from what I hear and I haven't seen any others like it. Kids today want maximum firepower. Although I can't help thinking a game about being a mountain man might be appealing, living in the wild, fighting off bears and Indians, all you can use is muzzleloaders. Something like that might get some youth interested. But I'm not gonna hold my breath.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
The only way to bring in new blood is to teach our children history...Make it interesting...Go to your schools, and Boy Scouts, tell them you are a history buff, reenactor, whatever and give talks...I've done this for over 30 years...
In addition, teach your children...I have a daughter teaching history right now in the Raleigh area because of my love of history...She grew up hearing me tell stories, watched me make a flintlock and took interest...She decided to be a teacher and was a NC Teaching Fellow and later got a full scholarship to Wake Forest for her Masters...
Don't sit around and wonder what happened, get out there and get involved...
Here I am the week before Thanksgiving at a local school...We have a program we have called Colonial Days for about 15 years...
Showing how a flintlock works...This is an attention getter...
Showing an image drawn of a rifleman at Yorktown...
Here is that image if you want to share...
Showing how to load and shoot a flintlock...
My grandson and I after a morning of watching Daniel Boone on DVDs...
In addition, teach your children...I have a daughter teaching history right now in the Raleigh area because of my love of history...She grew up hearing me tell stories, watched me make a flintlock and took interest...She decided to be a teacher and was a NC Teaching Fellow and later got a full scholarship to Wake Forest for her Masters...
Don't sit around and wonder what happened, get out there and get involved...
Here I am the week before Thanksgiving at a local school...We have a program we have called Colonial Days for about 15 years...
Showing how a flintlock works...This is an attention getter...
Showing an image drawn of a rifleman at Yorktown...
Here is that image if you want to share...
Showing how to load and shoot a flintlock...
My grandson and I after a morning of watching Daniel Boone on DVDs...
They actually let you bring a gun on school grounds? Amazing with most of the schools no tolerance policys you can even point your finger without getting expelled. Don't take it wrong, I think it's amazing that they let you.
newtewsmoke
45 Cal.
along the same thought of video games, look at how the first hunger games movie brought about a new popularity/ interest in the traditional bow. Maybe some sort of movie highlighting a ml would/could do the same? :idunno:
galamb said:
There are a few games that involve flintlocks: Mount&Blade Warband: Napoleonic Wars is a first person online multi-player game. Apparently you can load and shoot muskets, cannons, stand in line and shoot, etc. I've never tried it because I live out in the boonies and can only get dialup but if I ever get high speed...
Apparently Assassin's Creed is another first person period game, takes place in the American Revolution.
Then there is Empire Total War and Napoleon Total War, which puts you more in the role of general though you can actually see through the perspective of individual soldiers, watch them prime and load (though they ram the charges home far too many times!).
There may be others but those are the ones I'm familiar with. My oldest son has played the latter two, which has interested him in the flintlocks. So it can work!
And as an aside, apparently when veterans came up the other day in a discussion my youngest son noted his nanny and grampy were both veterans (Marines) and "daddy is veteran, that's why he has a musket!" They've seen pictures of me in uniform with an M-16--including my Parris Island graduation book--but the musket is what they remember!
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Mooman76 said:
You just have to go about it the proper way, it's history...I don't go in there pushing the NRA...I start with a brief history of The Lost Colony and Jamestown, where my ancestors were from and I grew up close by...I tell them of the abundant wildlife in the area and point out that the Indians were living in the Stone Age and able to feed themselves...I show them John White's pictures of them hunting and fishing...
I then point out that most Europeans weren't allowed to hunt and they had to learn how...The problems started when the Europeans started demanding and stealing food from the local tribes...
I guess it also helps that my 3 daughters were in school here, my wife is a school nurse and I go to church with the Superintendent...Her father trapped the Platt...
I've also had a fellow build a flintlock as his senior project that had listened to me...He ended up being a Marine sniper, pulled 3 tours...He is back and the local game warden...
Good job. Hey, what's that Rhode Island sailor doing there? LOL
And would you put some pants on that kid! Shame he'll have to turn in your guns to Party authorities when he's your age...
PS: your ancestors can't have been in The Lost Colony -- they were all LOST!
:slap:
And would you put some pants on that kid! Shame he'll have to turn in your guns to Party authorities when he's your age...
PS: your ancestors can't have been in The Lost Colony -- they were all LOST!
:slap:
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Jamestown, 1635...Thankfully after the Starving Times...
As far as the Lost Colony, there were reports of blonde haired, blue eyed Indians in some of the Jamestown letters that went back to England...
There is a book that came out a few years back called A Savage Kingdom, written based on diaries and letters that went back to England that sheds new light on the early years of Jamestown...
As far as the Lost Colony, there were reports of blonde haired, blue eyed Indians in some of the Jamestown letters that went back to England...
There is a book that came out a few years back called A Savage Kingdom, written based on diaries and letters that went back to England that sheds new light on the early years of Jamestown...
Walks with fire
54 Cal.
I have shot just about every projectile that could possibly be fired from a flinter. I have fast twist, medium and slow twist flinters. Over the last 20 years or so I have taken deer here in PA with heavy conicals, ball-ets, pistol bullets, power belts, special muzzleloading bullets and round ball and for my use I will probably remain a patched ball shooter from here forward. I use fiber optic sights because they work for the low light conditions I frequently hunt in.
Am I a traditional hunter? I think so but someone else might not. I have not use for an **line but others like them. I tried conicals and they are great and very accurate. I love to see the posts from the people that use them here and I respect them to the utmost. I don't like to hunt with a long gun but I sure do like the looks of them and how they handle. There is a tremendous wealth of experience and knowledge on this forum and a huge amount of gun building talent. Some of these guns are works of art and will stand the test of time.
All I can say is that I try to be non-judgemental and enjoy what works for me or what I like. I am glad we don't all want the same things.
Am I a traditional hunter? I think so but someone else might not. I have not use for an **line but others like them. I tried conicals and they are great and very accurate. I love to see the posts from the people that use them here and I respect them to the utmost. I don't like to hunt with a long gun but I sure do like the looks of them and how they handle. There is a tremendous wealth of experience and knowledge on this forum and a huge amount of gun building talent. Some of these guns are works of art and will stand the test of time.
All I can say is that I try to be non-judgemental and enjoy what works for me or what I like. I am glad we don't all want the same things.
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