What do I do when the custom gunbuilder sends me garbage?

[Scota4570]

I am am cleaning it.

The buttplate was cleaned with an oily wire wheel before the photo. There is no concern that the plug is suspect.

The whole thing was covered with thick cancerous rust upon removing it from the shipping box from the maker. The condition was unacceptable.

Guys.......never go near a gun with naval jelly or a dremil tool, please!

The lock is disassembled and soaking in a hot sonicator cleaning solution as I write this. It will definitely look aged. It will be functional.

I personally have a major beef with the hardware store screws. The vice marks on the breech are amateurish. There is a general lack of attention to detail. Skipping the step to rinse the browning solution and not oiling the parts is also pretty bad.

The build took many years. To me, it appears that the gentleman who did the work is having cognitive problems. He is advanced in age and probably loosing his skills. I won't say who did this based on respect for his former work and former prestigious standing in the muzzle loader community. Also since I am jumping in after the fact I don't want to slander someone with out knowing both sides. However, I have known the owner/thread starter for 53 years have have no reason to doubt his story.

 

[Alden]

No-one with any reason here would have cause to doubt your friend's story. Besides, what's the difference -- the gun speaks for itself. There are definitely obvious weaknesses in the delivered product's condition that were inherent.

I would suspect not only that the browning was not reversed but, again, that a non-pH-neutral wood treatment like Aqua Fortis was unchecked as well.

Clean it up, polish a bit here and there, and I also urge people to stay the heck away from Naval (and Navel) Jelly to remove rust for what it does to the surface of the steel, but do remember that petroleum jelly (A.K.A. Vaseline) was designed to keep tools from rusting... at sea.

Look forward to seeing the final, sweet, outcome fellas!!!

 

[kaintuck]

Any good car parts supply store will have Kano Exrust. Use this stuff out doors as the instructions say.
Then cold blue.......it'll be great looking.....


Except for those vise marks.....SOMEONE did a no-no..... :shake: :slap:

Anyway......step by step......I've seen worse!

Marc n tomtom

 

[Larry Beach]

Are you going to have to file the vice marks off, or are you going to leave it as it is?

 

[Scota4570]

I left the vice marks. The rust was so heavy that it left a sandblasted effect after removing the scale. To remove the marks, it would leave a patch of barrel that looks different, That would stick out as much as the vice marks.

We used steel wool and The Eliminator detergent to remove most of the rust. http://stores.ebay.com/Eliminator-Sales
It works better than oil for this kind of thing. For the lock pieces I used an ultrasonic cleaner with an oily mineral spirits kind of solution.

I find that chemical solutions that remove rust completely are not the best choice. If you do that the gun then looks over cleaned and messed with. IF you go slow and stop before you hit base metal the product looks more like a real antique.

The lock parts were not fitted or filed properly. I removed mold marks and flash on parts. The sear surfaces were dead soft, I case hardened them after fitting them better. I then browned with Birchwood Casey and rinsed in flowing water. I also made some handmade screws that look more appropriated.

The trigger guard was not fitted properly so, I fixed that. The muzzle crown was done with a countersink, it left a burr on the inside. The edges of the outside of the muzzle were sharp, fixed those. Everything then got heated with a heat gun and hosed with barricade.

We shot it, it works. It is a very unique firearm. It looks the part, and more important, it now functions properly.

I'm sure some photos will follow.

 

[Vaino]

I'm very puzzled as to why this rifle was shipped in that condition...contrary to the builder's excellent reputation?

Is he still accepting orders to build MLers and if so, his name should be known? Perhaps this gun is an exception even of his present work, but if it's any indication of what one can presently expect, it's a disservice to future customers not to disclose his name.

Perhaps he has stopped making MLers and in that case, his name should remain unknown......Fred

 

[Larry Beach]

You got a bit more than bargained for, but you gained experience and honed others. That is a pretty great looking stock, It also looks 100 years old, or more.
BTW.. How did you Case Harden the lock?
Have you had contact with the builder? I would be ashamed for letting something like that out of my hands.
On one hand, you have a Great Story, you have received a lot of good advice and support from your fellow Muzzle loaders..
Your Rifle has also gained some celebrity status here, and will be remembered and talked about!
By the way how well did it shoot?

 

[Scota4570]

I have old stock Hard and Tuff case hardening compound. It works well, you heat with a propane torch, then dunk in the powder. You then heat for several minuets with the torch at red-orange heat. Then quench in water. It makes a very hard skin on the surface of mild steel.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Photos to follow!!! More tomorrow.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Now that Scota4570 has worked some magic, here's the genuinely finished gun. It's historically accurate now, about the size of an M-1 Carbine.

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[wahkahchimaol.com]

The stock is historically accurate. It's supposed to be a cheek stock. Compare what the metal looks like now to what I received. Completely redone.

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[wahkahchimaol.com]

How it looked before Scota4570 worked on it

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How it looks now.

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[wahkahchimaol.com]

The buttplate as received.

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The buttplate after Scota4570 worked on it.

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[wahkahchimaol.com]

The barrel as received:

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The barrel after Scota4570 worked on it, recrowned it and removed the burrs at the mouth. The bore seems good, undamaged, and smooth. It loads easily.

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[wahkahchimaol.com]

The ramrod pipes were hairy with rust and stuck to the wood.

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After Scota4570 took them off the stock and worked on them.

 

[Alden]

Well now that's a whole another gun and one to be pretty darn proud of.

Told ya. Congratulations!

 

[Rifleman1776]

The bore seems good, undamaged, and smooth. It loads easily.

That is good fortune.

This entire thread, IMHO, is very important, especially for those thinking of ordering a custom rifle for the first time.
Custom work of any kind entails risk. I believe even the most talented builders, knife makers and others among us here will agree with that statement.
It is important to know who you are dealing with and examine their work before ordering.
Even though I consider myself experienced in this ml game, I have had several sad experiences with custom built rifles over the years.
The story of my Jackie Brown fowler is well documented here so I won't repeat.
But, for the sake of presenting case examples I'll tell the stories (yes, more than one ) of my less than satisfactory end results with custom builders.
My first was a half-stock flint Hawken in .54 caliber with a 30" barrel. It was built by a guy well known in the Friendship area in the 1970s. It was delivered to me in .50 cal. with a 36" barrel. The wood (walnut) was sapwood and ugly. The barrel was set in the stock at a cant. The trigger pull was designed for somebody very tall. I ordered a short trigger pull 'cause I am not tall. Only good thing on it was the lock, a Haddaway. I wish I had that lock today. The builder said he put a .50 on there because "you don't need a .54". He said, it wasn't what I ordered. He put the long barrel on despite the fact I ordered short, etc. Lousy rifle and he made no attempt to make things right.
We later had a rifle made for my wife by a reputed builder who was an NMLRA officer at the time. Happily the rifle was delivered as we ordered and it was, still is, beautiful. Great rifle. Downside to the story. :shocked2: We paid him on delivery. A year later, in public, he hounded us for payment. I showed proof of payment but he continued hounding us for years. Not a bad rifle but a bad business experience. BTW, that NMLRA officer was in line to become association President but was not even nominated. Well known as "not a nice guy".
Fast forward many years. I had long regretted not ordering a Jaeger from John Braxton when I had the chance. One day I won a Montana barrel in .54 cal. at a match. :grin: Wow, sez I, my opportunity to get a Jaeger built. Looking for a builder I was directed to a guy in southern Missouri about two hours drive from my home. Went to see him. Saw some of his rifles and was impressed. I left my parts and pictures of Jaegers. Months later got a call, rifle done. Went to get it. Wadda hunka junka. Could not have been worse. :shake: I am not a builder but have built a couple rifles, none bragging stuff. I certainly could have done much-much better than this idiot. The Christian in me wouldn't let me kill him even though the devil in me wanted to. :cursing: We came to a settlement agreement and I took my junker home. Never shot it.
I guess the happy ending is years later I struck a friendship with a genuine builder and he completely built me a new Jaeger from those parts. :grin:
Even with the risks, I would still order a custom rifle but would be super choosy about selecting the builder.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm going to add another 'build' story. Left it out because, in fact, there is no build. But, I'm trying to impress those considering getting their first build with the importance of using great caution in the process and to realize, in the end, this is a business transaction.
OK, here is the non-build story. Somewhere, a long time ago in a place far-far away I acquired an old original half-stock English fowler in lousy condition. My intention was to refurbish into a shooter but it was too far gone for that so it just collected dust for a long time. Then, through an English connection, I purchased a new in the white Damascus forged barrel made in Bavaria about 1800 through a London gunsmith. Hold yer teeth....I paid $850.00 for that barrel. I then purchased some wood and an L&R Classic model flintlock. Same friend who built my Jaeger said he would build my fowler using the original hardware and the stock for a pattern. That was 14 years ago. As in FOURTEEN years ago. Friend had some serious problems and is still having issues. His wife tells me the parts are in a storage unit with hundreds of other rifles and thousands of parts. At this point I don't know if I will ever get my parts returned. I'll try but this story may never have a happy ending. BTW, did I mention that, above all, getting a rifle built is a business arrangement? It is not some kind of muzzle loading kumbaya love fest. :nono:

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Used is good too. Also if the builder actually has the gun in stock. And it's better to actually have the ability to visit the builder face-to-face....that's been my experience. Also NEVER pay the full price up front. That's a recipe for a LONG build time...anyway that's been my experience.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Aside from Scota4570, the ONE exception to all this has been Leonard Day. He's way up front and he gets it done fast, or he won't take the money. Any other good experiences?