Whitmore, Duff, Wolff & Co.

[Bnewberry]

Very interesting thread!

 

[smoothshooter]

You have a very interesting half-stock rifle there.

Just a guess, but I think your gun was made sometime around 1830-1850.

It's interesting that the lock seems to not have a "half cock" notch on the tumbler (the internal part that rotates with the hammer).

The existing notch on the tumbler is a "full cock" notch, used to hold the hammer in the cocked position until the trigger is pulled. Most locks have a "half cock" notch which is more in the shape of a U located about 1/4" below the full cock notch. It's purpose is to hold the nose of the (missing) sear arm in a trapped pocket so the gun can't accidentally fire.

I have heard of percussion locks being made that did not have a half-cock notch.
Why would any lock maker fail to include one on a lock?
Seems strange to pick that particular feature as a place to cut costs on a gun.

 

[smoothshooter]

I have an Ohio rifle that was made in the mid 1850s.
Did a thorough restoration and cleaning in it (but didn’t refinish the stock) cleaning the metal, replacing missing wood chips and repairing a dozen cracks.

One thing I would point out, I initially thought my rifle was a .40 also. It mic’d out exactly like yours. Turns out it is a .32...the muzzle had been coned and was a full 1.5” down the bore before it was a standard depth.

Maybe yours is a .40. Just figured I would point that out.
Wish I could shoot mine, but the stock is practically like balsa wood, no real strength at all left.

Also, no half cock notch. This was very common at the time. Hammers were carried resting on the cap to keep it from falling off while hunting.

Its the top one in the pic below.

View attachment 73602

A half-cock notch holding the face hammer about a tenth of an inch or less off the nipple would keep the cap on.
When I was a kid I hunted with two originals that were set up that way and I do not recall ever having a cap fall off.

 

[brazosland]

A half-cock notch holding the face hammer about a tenth of an inch or less off the nipple would keep the cap on.
When I was a kid I hunted with two originals that were set up that way and I do not recall ever having a cap fall off.

Good for you. I’m just telling you what I know.

It was absolutely common in that time period for commercial locks to not have a half cock notch. Perhaps given the metallurgy of the day, it was seen to be as unsafe as we now see not having one is.

 

[Zonie]

I have heard of percussion locks being made that did not have a half-cock notch.
Why would any lock maker fail to include one on a lock?
Seems strange to pick that particular feature as a place to cut costs on a gun.

It is rather odd but, there are some locks made specifically for target shooting competition that do not have half cock notches. I'm not sure what this gains someone using this type of lock. Maybe it is the assurance that once the hammer is released from a full cock position, there is nothing in the way to slow it down so the speed of the lock is faster? (There is a small amount of energy lost by the tumbler when the nose of the sear hits the fly if one is present.)

 

[smoothshooter]

Good for you. I’m just telling you what I know.

It was absolutely common in that time period for commercial locks to not have a half cock notch. Perhaps given the metallurgy of the day, it was seen to be as unsafe as we now see not having one is.

I wonder if some of those locks started with a half-cock notch that broke off from use at some point in it’s life, and someone dressed down the rough place on the tumbler where the break occurred with stones to ensure smooth function and make it look better.
But that may not be the case with yours at all.

 

[Grenadier1758]

When you come across these rifles built for target shooting, it is almost a certainty that there will not be a half cock notch. At the target shoots, you capped as you stepped to the firing line. You did not want to have anything on that tumbler to impede the fall of the hammer. This was considered to be a very safe practice. These locks show no sign of ever having a half cock notch. One of our members who built rifles for these matches did not see the need for a half cock notch and most of his rifles will not have a half cock notch. Features that identify these rifles built for chunk gun, table matches and other variants of over-the-log matches include the heavy, long barrel, small caliber, set triggers, iron sights and locks that don't have half cock notches.

 

[Mad Michael]

When you come across these rifles built for target shooting, it is almost a certainty that there will not be a half cock notch

This rifle seems to have a lot of traits in common with a target rifle: absence of a half cock notch, polygonal barrel which, to the best of my interpretation of his bore photos, seems to go all the way down, main spring attached to the tumbler via a swivel giving constant pressure. One finds the tabbed lock bolt washer on whitworths also.

I appreciate the comments as it is a process that takes time.

No comment other than the above but what kind of sites or site attachment does it have? None show, to my old eyes, and can you tell if it was intended for a polygon bullet?

 

[Kansas Jake]

Just to add on the no half cock on the tumbler, I have a Tingle percussion rifle that was probably made in the late 1960s without a half cock. The set trigger has to be set before it will cock.

 

[Davey Boy]

The iron sites are tall ears with a long front site . I will take some pictures and post.

When I first began to try to understand why it had seven flats in the bore, I read it was done that way for use with a seven sides bullet.

It difficult enough to draw seven flats in a circle. 360/7 is a weird number and someone went a long ways from easy to cut that pattern in the bore. Think of the time it took to make the machine to cut those flats.

The rate of twist if not absolutely precise the entire length of the barrel, with a bullet made to fit, would suffer interference to the bullet traveling. Distortions in the bullet and surges from pressure pulse I would expect would result.

I am not a ballistics engineer so I do not comprehend the design virtues.

Obviously the Whitworth design works as deadly accuracy repeatedly occurs at over 1000 yards.

 

[Davey Boy]

I wonder if the heptagon bullet prevents expanding gases from causing blow by as the bullet leaves the barrel.

In tests on boat tail and flat based projectiles, blow by was detrimental to the projectile in several respects.

Perhaps the heptagon shape hit the sweet spot for launching by great limiting of blowby, distortion, and hot gas gouging of of the projectile. In other words; gas seal for maximum energy transfer, minimum distortion from acceleration and temperatue, effective rotational forces for linear flight.

 

[Davey Boy]

This rifle seems to have a lot of traits in common with a target rifle: absence of a half cock notch, polygonal barrel which, to the best of my interpretation of his bore photos, seems to go all the way down, main spring attached to the tumbler via a swivel giving constant pressure. One finds the tabbed lock bolt washer on whitworths also.


No comment other than the above but what kind of sites or site attachment does it have? None show, to my old eyes, and can you tell if it was intended for a polygon bullet?

I took some pictures of the sites including measurements

here are the pictures, quality of photos should allow you to zoom in

 

[Davey Boy]

Front and rear sites

 

[Davey Boy]

Pictures of the heptagon (7 flats) bore

 

[Davey Boy]

RAMROD

I installed the JAG from track of the Wolf on the ramrod. Then bottomed out the JAG in empty barrel. Taped location of ramrod at end of barrel when it was bottomed out. The ramrod was cut to length I wanted, center drilled, tap sized drilled (#21), and I tapped a 10-32 at the cut end so I can put a finial on the end when I get a round tuit. I knurled near the end for effect, then knurled at the location of the tape.

 

[Davey Boy]

RAMROD continued

tap the end for finial



Knurl end near finial location, move to tape location and knurl there too



Both knurls shown, ramrod would be bottomed out in barrel



Jag end of ramrod shown. The end of the Jag is cupped and I will use to seat the ball

 

[Celticstoneman]

Fascinating thread! Thank you for your time in posting and sharing. I was lucky in that the dust had all settled when I read it beginning to end. It is a teal learning experience. All of our resident experts were able to contribute also.Great place to be!
John

 

[Davey Boy]

Been hanging up long enough, it's time to load and fire

 

[Gtrubicon]

I just read this whole thread and really enjoyed it! I would love to see the results of it being shot. I have been looking for an original rifle that I can shoot. Thank you for showing your journey and skill in this thread.

 

[Davey Boy]

I just read this whole thread and really enjoyed it! I would love to see the results of it being shot. I have been looking for an original rifle that I can shoot. Thank you for showing your journey and skill in this thread.

Thank you!

I would highly recommend you look into a kit that you can put together yourself. Then it will be an original of your making.

Dave