Wolves?

[Pete Gaimari]

I've been reading about the Wolf problem in Idaho. I was wondering if they've moved into Colorado yet?

When I was hunting today I could have swore I saw some wolf tracks. Since it was snowing pretty hard they couldn't have been that old.

What say you?

 

[longcruise]

Lotsa activity around that cottonwood lake area. Prpbably somebody's dog.

Lots of claims of wolf sightings in CO. Some honest mistakes, others intentional lies in the hopes of triggering a wolf management program, etc.

A few years ago a collared wolf from one of the states north of us turned up laying dead in the median of I-70 right around Idaho Springs. Lots of speculation as to how it got there??? It was concluded that it had probably been hit by a car right there given the approximate time of death. Who knows?

About two years ago a CO wildlife Officer videoed a wolf in North Park just south of the Wyoming line. It's pretty much certain that it was the real McCoy.

They will be here soon enough!

 

[Bubba45]

I dunno bout Col. but they sluffin in to N.E.Ore. and workin on the Elk herds !

 

[scobrien]

Yes Capper, we have a thriving population. Last year, the first open hunting season was allowed on them on a quota basis. I know a few ol boys here that killed one. The season has now been shut down and they are back on the endangered list. I get to see them every once in a while, but for the most part, they are very elusive. However, I hear them howling on a regular basis.

They cause quite the controversy in these parts.
Most of the people around here do not know all that much about them and base their arguments on whatever the current story floating around the coffee shops and bars happens to be.

There has been several hounds in this country killed by them. I personaly know two of the men who lost dogs. I got rid of my hounds a couple of years ago and was lucky to have not lost a dog. In the North Fork River drainage, it is one hell of a gamble to turn your dogs loose on a track. They are thickest in that region.

It is a fact that our elk populations are down, and the wolf is part of the reason, BUT not the only reason. There are other environmental factors at play that are too complex to try and address in this post. From what I have seen, I am of the opinion that our elk are slowly adapting to the wolf and learning how to survive among them. More sound management decisions need to be implemented at this point, instead of just trying to sell tags.

The last two years that I guided, I had wolves around me on a daily basis. They would often come around the area where I had tied off the clients and my mule prior to heading off into a canyon to hunt. I heard them howling most every morning in the dark while riding out from camp to the area that I was going to hunt for the day. The howling spooked the hell out of most of the clients and they would not get very far from my hind pockets The good thing was that they did add an extra element to the overall experience for the clients. On the downside, the wolves did make it hard as hell to hunt, as the elk stayed kegged up in the thickets and were seldom seen in any opening.

Many outfitters in the Clearwater region are now struggling because of the declining population. It is sort of a catch 22. People want elk around so they can kill them. Outfitters want elk so they can make money. Wolves just do what wolves do, they kill elk to survive, but they have the Federal Government backing them. It starts to get complicated at this point.

I will add this personal note and it is strictly my own opinion. I do not mind the wolf being here, I just don't want them treated like some glorified mystic animal. A Mt.Lion is just as good and efficient preditor as the wolf, yet they get no special treatment. We can harvest them freely in Idaho. Make it so with the wolf.

As it now stands, however, I have chosen not to harvest any more elk. The last bull that I shot was in 2006. If I am out killing elk from a diminishing population, then I am also part of the problem. That is a personal choice that I do not impose on others. Simply put, I do not want to kill elk, I want to hunt them, and only if it is an ecologically sound practice. I can at this point, however, hunt the Idaho wolf in good conscience. Yet the law says NO!

As a final note, I hope our wolf problem does not migrate your way. It has not been a pretty scene for Idaho and it will also tough for CO. For now, I'm just glad that I am not an elk, or a wolf

BTW, if they do become established in your state, you will not have any problem in identifying their tracks, because they will be everywhere and they are rather distinct from a lion.

Take care my friend

 

[Vaino]

First off, let's not exaggerate the effect that wolves have on their surroundings seeing the dislike for wolves probably started when we were living in caves. On the other hand, wolves are competing w/ humans for their share of wildlife and are experts in gaining that share. A pack of wolves to survive eats a whole lot of wild meat and in some areas, some not so wild. Wisconsin has a burgeoning wolf population which is even spreading to the central farming areas which fact could spell trouble for livestock. I deer hunt in central Wisc. and our area has 2 sizeable wolf packs and for the last 6-8 yrs have been noticing a big decline in yearling deer and does and this is definitely caused by the wolves. Personally, I think the reintroduction of wolves is a good thing, but because they multiply and migrate to new areas, wolf numbers must be controlled. I don't shoot animals I don't eat but controlled wolf hunting very soon will be a necessity and the federal and state gov'ts should allow it. During the bear training and hunting seasons in Wisc. many bear hounds have been killed by wolves {wolves are very territorial} w/ some instances of livestock wolf kills. Even w/ a wolf hunting season it will be difficult to reduce wolf numbers because "they ain't dumb" and many live in remote, thickly wooded areas, but the people responsible for the wolves have to rethink their "no kill" policy.....Fred

 

[Brent]

I grew up with wolves in Northern Minnesota and never had a problem with them or my dogs. Just wasn't an issue. Since then (1960s and 70s) both wolf and deer populations have grown tremendously in that part of the state. So, you can have wolves and deer too. And eventually - maybe sooner than later, wolf hunting seasons as well.

Colorado will have wolves. No doubt about that. And probably in the not so distant future. But they will manage just fine.

Right now, the biggest roadblock to rational wolf management is the state of Wyoming. Strangely, it is only their belligerent position with the Feds that have necessarily stopped the hunting seasons in Idaho and Montana. That is unfortunate, but eventually, they will get over it.

BTW, I currently live in relatively wolfless central Iowa. And for sure, my yearling deer population is down, and has been down for at least the last 2 years. Really down a lot this year. So saying your local decline is "definitely" due to wolves makes me wonder how you know this for sure.

Brent

 

[Jayhem]

We are having a similar problem in the East...but with Coyotes! I started see them this year at dusk running through the fields. At night I can hear packs of what sounds like 10-15 coyotes yapping up a storm and freaking out every dog on my dirt road!

 

[Pete Gaimari]

What do you guys think of this web site?

Wolves do seem to be a problem, and i'd hate to see it come to Colorado.
http://www.lobowatch.com/

 

[Brent]

What do you guys think of this web site?

I think it is worse than just BS. It gives hunters a hell of a bad name that will come back to haunt us - actually it already has among the many that are ambivalent about hunting. They are a lot less ambivalent today, primarily because of attitudes like the ones on that website and spills over to all hunters, everywhere.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Any truth to Elk herds being cut down by wolves to the point of Elk season closing?

Wolves attack the young. Soon the old will die off, and what's left?

 

[Supercracker]

We are having a similar problem in the East...but with Coyotes! I started see them this year at dusk running through the fields. At night I can hear packs of what sounds like 10-15 coyotes yapping up a storm and freaking out every dog on my dirt road!

About a year ago I came into the office/farm one morning and a pack of about 5 yotes had my colts circled up. I shot at them and they ran off and I have'nt seen them again. I see tracks and poop all the time. I also think they're responsible for the occasional missing chicken.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Coyotes are worthless. I get rid of them for the ranchers in my area.

 

[Brent]

Any truth to Elk herds being cut down by wolves to the point of Elk season closing?

Wolves attack the young. Soon the old will die off, and what's left?

They don't get them all. And before the elk are gone, the wolves start starving off too. How does any prey coexist with its predators? Wolves and elk are no different than muskies and walleyes.

When it comes to calf mortality, nothing equals bears generally speaking, esp. black bears. Lots of those around in elk country.

Wolves will affect elk populations. No doubt about that. But it isn't an all or nothing sort of deal.

Lots of good elk hunting in wolf country in Canada. So, it will work out, but the beginning is going to be rough. In part because of the mathematics of populations but much more so due to politics.

 

[Vaino]

Like a lot of things, evidence is hard to come by.....even the scientists don't have a lot of info. Seeing it's coincidental that w/ the influx of wolves, the number of yearling deer and does has greatly decreased and this really doesn't take a rocket scientist to place blame on the wolves.....just a little common sense. There have been big changes in the number of wolves since the 60s and 70s and living in Iowa w/ a zero wolf population kinda keeps one out of touch w/ the present situation. Some would like the wolves to disappear completely by whatever means, but wolves certainly have a place in the scheme of things...it's just that their numbers have to be controlled....Fred

 

[Brent]

I don't think wolves have changed too much. They are pretty much wolves afterall, so what held back then probably holds now. You have had some pretty tough winters recently. Probably a bunch of other things you can't quantify. Lots of things could explain your observation. Wolves are just one.

Common sense says wolves are in the mix of possibilities. Common sense also says you can't say much more than just that without some real data which neither of us have.

As for wolves "have to be controlled". Why do you say that? I don't have much problem with a legal and rational wolf hunting season, but they don't "have to be controlled" either. Again, that is just common sense. And this is where I think hunters could do a lot better.

The West is certainly setting a prime example of how to NOT do things. I think the Midwest is in danger of going the same direction. I hope not, but I can imagine it happening quite easily.

The best case scenario is regulated hunting of wolves as a trophy species. Just like bears, or anything other big game. If hunters won't cozy up to that idea, NO WOLF HUNTING will be rammed down our throats permanently. Along with that will be increased hostility towards hunting as a state-supported and socially acceptable activity.

Brent

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I have nothing against wolves. I think they're pretty cool.

However, nature needs to be kept in balance. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way naturally. I don't know for sure, but the balance seems to be going in favor of the wolves.

If that's the case. They should be hunted until balance is restored.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Identifying animals from their tracks, or track shapes,( In snow, for instance) requires some basic knowledge about the tracks of various species.

Canines( fox, coyote, ferrel dogs, and wolves) are diagonal walkers, have four toes and a pad on all four feet showing, along with claws that show, and the foot SHAPE is OVAL.

A wolf track for an adult wolf can be expected to be approx. 4 3/4" long and 4 1/2" wide on the front feet, with the rear feed being 4 1/2 by 4 1/8" in dimension. In a walking pace, the rear feet will INDIRECTLY REGISTER on the front tracks, allowing you to determine the sex of the wolf.

Females have wider straddle between the hind legs, than do males, due to the birth canal. The rear foot steps on the tracks left by the front foot but to the outside of the track, leaving a doubling on the inside of the track.

A Male's tracks will be the opposite, leaving a doubling on the outside of the tracks. If the wolf is walking slower, or moving at a faster pace, then you see 4 distinct tracks, with the rear feet moving in front of the front tracks, when moving faster than a walking pace.

Ferrel dogs tracks can run the gambit of sizing, from much smaller, to much larger than a wolf's.

To distinguish a wolf's tracks from that of a ferrel dog, look at the toe pad prints. The inner two toes of a DOG will be LARGER than the outer two toe pads. The pads of the wolf will be all the SAME SIZE.

The Cats have 4 toes also, but their claws retract, and usually are not seen in a footprint. The shape of the cat's prints are more Round than oval, and that, along with the absence of claws showing, is how you distinguish cat tracks of all kinds from those of any canine. Also, Cats tracks directly register - their back feet step right on the tracks left by the front feet, leaving very little of the front track to observe when the cat is walking. Once you get used to seeing cat tracks, you will never confuse a dog's track with them ever again. Practice this by following the family house cat in the snow when it goes out to survey its domain! :grin: :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

However, nature needs to be kept in balance. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way naturally. I don't know for sure, but the balance seems to be going in favor of the wolves.

If that's the case. They should be hunted until balance is restored.

I don't disagree with that, but there are varying definitions of balance. Natural balance is not always a clean neat process.

A disease that kills off most of the natural food base for elk will result in a massive die off and end up in balance. Predators and scavengers will thrive for a while but lack of food will bring them to balance shortly thereafter.

Since you and I have a desired "balance" of more elk and less wolves, then we want to whack them. Since the Sinapoo types want more wolves, less hunters and could care less about elk numbers, they think there should be more wolves. :haha:

It's not a question of natural balance, it's politics! :haha:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Maybe the answer is to shoot the " sinapoo Types" whatever that is???? :idunno:

 

[Brent]

I have nothing against wolves. I think they're pretty cool.

However, nature needs to be kept in balance. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way naturally. I don't know for sure, but the balance seems to be going in favor of the wolves.

If that's the case. They should be hunted until balance is restored.

Capper, the operative word here is "balance". There is a techinical definition of balance, but I doubt it would be very satisfying to you. And I doubt it really means what you want it to mean. So, if you define it, we can talk about it.

Remember when food starts getting scarce - the "balance" will swing against the wolves.

If you have ever been to Isle Royal in Lake Superior you have seen many many decades of wolves and moose coexisting without any human intervention of any kind. The system will work w/ or w/o hunting and that is even more true of mainland populations, and certainly was the case before humans settled North America (the first or the second time).