First Gun Build Questions

Okay, will do.

 

[don hepler]

Ok we're getting there. Put a feeler gage, between the breech face and back of barrel if it's ,say .007,then remove .007 from breech face out past the threads. One flat and you're home. If it's .014, then remove .014 from breech face out past the threads, and it should turn two flats.

Give us the exact gap and we can solve the problem, Hopefully.

Good luck.

 

Now if I only had a feeler gauge. :shake: Back in the day, I used to have a bunch of them. I guess I'm off to the auto parts store tomorrow.

 

[Zonie]

Ain't this fun? :grin:

On the positive side, when you've finished getting the three conditions met you will know it's done right (and better than at least one barrel supplier does). :thumbsup:

 

Ain't this fun? :grin:

Sure, sort of like going to the dentist. Lol... I have it down to no gap, and about 1/16th off the flat. I don't have a "real" workbench setup yet with a vise that I can really give this a good tug, but I bet once I get that all setup, It will align. I don't want to risk over-shooting the flat so I'm going to let it sit for now.

Once I get to the point where I permanently install the breech, do I want to put some anti seize on the threads or is that not necessary? One school says "never ever take your breech apart" and another says to do so from time to time to get it good and clean. Thoughts? I've never taken my other ones off, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't come in handy with a stuck ball or something.

John

 

[jdkerstetter]

I've always checked for proper breeching....no matter who did it....nobody is infallible and it's just too easy to check and too risky not to.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

......do I want to put some anti seize on the threads or is that not necessary?

Even if you never "intend" to remove the breech you should put anti-seize on the threads. It's just insurance.

I have a barrel and lock from a gun that fell from a tree-stand....not mine. I will be recycling these parts and thus the plug will have to be removed.

Use the anti-seize! J.D.

 

One of the things I noticed was the bottom shoulder of the plug (The L shaped part) would contact the breech of the barrel first and when I had the gap, it was only on the top. That was a real female dog to fix as it is such a tight space to file. I tried using the bastard file, but even on the skinny edge, there was just too much chance of nicking the threads with the large flat portion of the file. I had to resort to the needle file for that part, but it took forever.

It's strange how that part of the plug was touching first since that's all one piece of milled metal. Must be a very so slight bend in it is all I could think.

Off to get wood today to build a bench. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow I can get my vise setup and torque this plug down and then move on to the next step (which is??? barrel inlet fitting?)

John

 

[jdkerstetter]

Next time you have to file a bolster like that get some metal duct...not "duck"...tape and wrap the threads a couple of times with it. The other option is to buy or make a file with one side "safe"...teeth ground off. Pillar files have one safe side as new, otherwise you can gride one side of a flat mill file smooth....one of the narrow sides. Just be careful not to overheat the file when doing so.

Next step????

Now, you're gonna love this! After you get that plug seated tight, with the gap closed up and the tang lined up with a flat, guess what???

You get to remove it again to inlet your barrel. :haha:

But, before you do that, get a dowel longer than the barrel, put it down the bore....a ramrod blank is perfect. Mark the end exactly where it exits the muzzle. Lay the rod along the lock side of your barrel and transfer this mark to that flat. Add 3/16" and this is your vent location.

Does the barrel fit in the barrel channel? If not this is the time to inlet it down to the bottom of the channel. Don't set it back to the end of the channel yet though....I'll explain....

Does the lock fit your pre-inlet mortise? Even if it does it probably isn't inlet full depth. Once the barrel is down in the channel you will inlet your lock to mate flush with the barrel side flat. Then you will know exactly where the pan is so you can the.....

Inlet your barrel's breech, setting it back to where the mark for the vent location lines up with where the pan of your lock is.

Then it's time to reinstall your breech plug. shape the end of the tang to the desired profile and inlet the plug. Don't bend the tang at this point....later.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Zonie]

I think you might have had a slip of the typewriter key?

When determining the location of the face of the breech plug from the muzzle you mentioned marking this location on the side flat of the barrel.

I totally agree with this but then you said, "...Add 3/16" and this is your vent location."

Actually, I think it should have said,
"...Subtract 3/16" (.187) and this is your vent location."

The vent must be closer to the muzzle than the face of the breech plug.

I like the 3/16" dimension as it is a nice easy to work with value that will allow installing a 1/4" or 5/16" diameter vent liner without it interfering with the face of the breech plug.

 

[jdkerstetter]

You are correct....you know what I meant but Perry may not have understood. Thanks for the catch. :hatsoff:

I have been more specific and said, "measure 3/16" forward of (or toward the muzzle from) the mark indicating the breech plug face and this will be your vent location."....or something like that.

In my defense, I had not had my lunch yet. :grin:

Thanks again, J.D.

 

Okay, well built the workbench last night (8' long... that should give me plenty of room... for now) and installed my bench vise and got that breech nice and tight. All aligned and nice and tight. I figured I would have to remove the breech again, so that's okay.

Does the barrel fit the channel... not really. It will not seat in it unless I force it in. I assume this is where I use the inletting black on the bottom flats (I think I read to only use black on the bottom 3, and not to apply it to the sides?? Is that correct) and then just start to carefully remove the high spots where the black is indicated. I wasn't able to find scrappers, but I do have some chisels. The ones I have are fairly small, so should I also get one the size of the barrel flat?

I'm not sure I understand the dowel part. If I add 3/16th to the end of the barrel, it will be in the middle of the breech plug still. Don't I want to measure that with the breech plug still in it? Did I miss something?

Also, when I install the breech plug for the last time, is it okay to use anti-seize compound on the threads, or should I leave them "naked"?

The lock is inlet, but I have a lot of wood to still remove to get it to actually fit in the spot where it goes.

Why don't I want to set the barrel all the way to the back just yet? I thought you do that when inletting the barrel channel (at least that's what I thought I saw in that video and also in one of the books).

Thanks again guys,

John

 

Zonie... what type of gun in that in your signature? Indian Trade gun based off a .75cal Brown Bess?

 

[kaintuck]

Does the barrel fit the channel... not really. ?

:hmm:
barrels need to be snug...not tight in my opinion~they are held in by the barrel lugs.
as for the location of your hole, that needs to be in alignement with the pan....the pan can't be aligned to final location till the BARREL is in and bedded.....
#1 bed the barrel until it looks right in the wood and lock area.
#2 install lock plate according to flash hole.
#3 while doing #2, locate the RR hole, and make the forward bolt travel between barrel and RR drilled hole.AND keep the lock plate tail fall right on the stock.......
it will sound :youcrazy: but....it all falls together after the 1st one you do....

i use LOTS of pencils and erasers!

 

Not really meaning it will not fully bed. The sides are holding if from sitting down at the bottom. I know I have to carve/file/shave the channel to get it to seat.

Just curious... on a barrel that is 7/8", what is the size of the flat? 3/8"?

 

Never mind on the flat size. If I did my math correctly, the width of a flat is .3625" or just a hair under 3/8th.

To get that number I took the width (7/8) and multiplied it by the Sqrt of 2 over 2+ the square root of 2. I did this since we are technically talking of a square with the corners lopped off (for an octagon) (as we know from geometry on how to my the hypotenuse of a triangle) So the final formula was:

.875 * (sqrt(2)/2+sqrt(2)) = .3625" or really damn close to 3/8"

 

[jdkerstetter]

Does the barrel fit the channel... not really. ?

:hmm:
barrels need to be snug...not tight in my opinion~they are held in by the barrel lugs.
as for the location of your hole, that needs to be in alignement with the pan....the pan can't be aligned to final location till the BARREL is in and bedded.....
#1 bed the barrel until it looks right in the wood and lock area.
#2 install lock plate according to flash hole.
#3 while doing #2, locate the RR hole, and make the forward bolt travel between barrel and RR drilled hole.AND keep the lock plate tail fall right on the stock.......
it will sound :youcrazy: but....it all falls together after the 1st one you do....

i use LOTS of pencils and erasers!

Kaintuck, HE IS WORKING WITH A PRE-INLET LOCK! His pan position is predetermined so he has to align the vent with it....not the other way around.

Perry,

Please read the my prior posts. With the lock pre-inlet your vent is dictated by the lock location already so you don't set the barrel back until the lock is in.

1. Take a long dowel and put it down the barrel and put a mark on the dowel at the muzzle. Lay the dowel along the lock side flat of the barrel and mark where your breech plug face is. Put another mark 3/16" forward...or toward the muzzle from this mark...this is your future vent location. Remove the breech plug.

2. Get the barrel inlet so that the bottom 3 flats are making contact with the bottom of the channel. You can file the sides of the mortise length wise or use your chisels helf just off perpendicual and use them as scrapers.

3. Inlet your lock so it meets the barrels sid flat.

4. Now inlet the breech end of the barrel...setting it back to where the mark for your vent lines up with the pan of your lock....and you have full contact with the back of the channel.

Once all of this is done you will install your breech plug again and inle the plug and tang.

Clear? J.D.

 

JD, thanks... I missed something in the dowel tip. I assumed I had already removed the breech plug, but your directions above just clarified that the plug is still in. That makes a ton more sense.

What's the purpose of the dowel though? Is that what I use to line everything up, or is that what I use to spot the location on the barrel for where the touch hole liner will go? I'm assuming the later, but would like a confirmation on that. Also, I'm assuming I'm not installing the touch hole liner just yet as I need to locate it vertically once the barrel in fully inletted to the stock, correct?

I'll start on 1 & 2 this weekend. Thanks for all the tips everyone. Much appreciated.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Good. Glad your getting it. To answer some questions in an earlier post of yours:

Does the barrel fit the channel... not really. It will not seat in it unless I force it in.

Never force a part in...wood will crack or split. At this stage parts should drop in....not too tight. The finish adds more surface to the wood and too tight parts will not fit if too tight now.

I assume this is where I use the inletting black on the bottom flats (I think I read to only use black on the bottom 3, and not to apply it to the sides?? Is that correct) and then just start to carefully remove the high spots where the black is indicated.

Yes. If applied to the side it can give false readings as it's slid in and out. Kaintuck gave good advise on the fact that the sides don't have to be all that tight. A single sheet of paper gap is fine on the sides as when you finish the stock, wax the channel and brown the barrel...walla, no noticable gap. Don't worry about applying black to the bottome flats until you get the barrel in past the sides...save you some mess.

Also, when I install the breech plug for the last time, is it okay to use anti-seize compound on the threads, or should I leave them "naked"?

Anti-seize it the next time you put it in.

Why don't I want to set the barrel all the way to the back just yet? I thought you do that when inletting the barrel channel (at least that's what I thought I saw in that video and also in one of the books).

Asked and answered. The books assume the lock is not pre-inlet.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

What's the purpose of the dowel though? Is that what I use to line everything up, or is that what I use to spot the location on the barrel for where the touch hole liner will go? I'm assuming the later, but would like a confirmation on that.

You assume correctly. The mark 3/16" ahead of your breech plug face is the ultimate drill point for a drilled vent or liner.

Also, I'm assuming I'm not installing the touch hole liner just yet as I need to locate it vertically once the barrel in fully inletted to the stock, correct?

Again a correct assumption. Drilling the vent is one of the last steps. I may have a gun completely finished before drilling as you don't have to worry about browning solution getting in at that point. Some do it earlier to "proof" the barrel. Some guys shoot their guns "in the white". I don't as shooting and cleaning a "white" gun is problematic....for the wood.

Enjoy, J.D.