hawken help

[jae mobley]

Any one ever heard of a springfield hawken?
I bought a barrel for 40 bucks in great shape.
I thought it would fit my cva stock but it wont.
I would like to find a stock for that barrel.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

isnt that one made by traditions?

 

[Bountyhunter]

First off welcome to the board.

Next, there is no such thing as a hawkens. That barrel you have came off a Springfield Hawken which isnt a Hawken either. It was a marketing ploy used by Bass Pro Shops in Springfield. They had Traditions make a run of them for them some years ago in the early 1980's. You can probably exchange it with another Traditions rifle barrel if you can find one with a bad barrel. They are good shootin barrels, but that still doesnt make them a Hawken.

 

[jae mobley]

I dont know anything I can find out is a big help.

 

[jae mobley]

ok thanks
so what I have is a HAWKEN replica? sorry Im new to this.
I'll get it right eventually. :grin:

 

[Zonie]

Your barrel sounds like it may have been imported by an importer who called themselves Springfield.
Over the years we have seen hundreds of importers come and go. They usually import from one of the several companies that have made muzzleloaders over the years.

These manufactures are usually located in Italy or Spain although Belgium, Germany, England, India and Japan have also contributed.

As all of the countries except the U.S. and Japan require proofing of the barrel, look for proof marks to learn where the barrel was made.

Italian barrels will have the letters PN with a star in a circle and a small shield with a star above it stamped on it.

All of the muzzleloaders made in Spain seem to be made by Ardesa, makers of CVA and Traditions guns.
The Spanish proof marks usually have a number followed by Kp/cm or similar letters.

 

[roundball]

ok thanks
so what I have is a HAWKEN replica? sorry Im new to this.
I'll get it right eventually. :grin:

Nothing what-so-ever for you to feel sorry about...Zonie's reply was much more appropriate to your question...welcome to the forum

 

[Mad Professor]

Your barrel sounds like it may have been imported by an importer who called themselves Springfield.
Over the years we have seen hundreds of importers come and go. They usually import from one of the several companies that have made muzzleloaders over the years.

These manufactures are usually located in Italy or Spain although Belgium, Germany, England, India and Japan have also contributed.

As all of the countries except the U.S. and Japan require proofing of the barrel, look for proof marks to learn where the barrel was made.

Italian barrels will have the letters PN with a star in a circle and a small shield with a star above it stamped on it.

All of the muzzleloaders made in Spain seem to be made by Ardesa, makers of CVA and Traditions guns.
The Spanish proof marks usually have a number followed by Kp/cm or similar letters.

Toledo of Spain also made barrels.

I've got a so-called "unsafe" 15/16 " 12 ga drop in barrel for TC hawken. It was proofed to > 10,000 psi and works fine. :thumbsup:

 

[cowpoke1955]

I think Bountyhunter is right. I saw a "Springfield Hawkens" on one of the auction sites last week. If I remember right, it looked like the CVA/Traditions type Hawkens with a larger patch box. A close up of the barrel said it was made in Spain. As others have said, try a Traditions stock and lock. Good luck.

 

[Bountyhunter]

No, what you have is a Traditions replica.

Hawken is a very specific design and style of rifle made famous by Jacob and Samuel Hawken. Lots of marketing people tack the name on other rifles but it is for marketing purposes, not because it follows the lines of nor does it accurately represent the design of a Hawken in any way.

Bass Pro shops in Springfield, Missouri did a big sales pitch in the early '80's and got Traditions to make them a rifle. Same as Cabelas does now. They called it the Springfield Hawken. Thompson Center and others have cabbaged on to the name to try to sell rifles using the name Hawken to attract the uninitiated.

The Traditions rifles are good enough rifles, that isnt my point. My point is, they are not Hawkens by design, they just borrow the name to try to catch buyers, because Hawken is a famous name. Unscrupulous dealers did similar things with L.C. Smith shotguns at the turn of the last century.

There are some Hawken threads here if you search that had a thousand replies and tons of pictures of real Hawken rifles and Hawken replicas.

 

If you're really interested in learning about Hawken rifles, refer to John D. Baird's books, Hawken Rifles, and his second book, Fifteen Years in the Hawken Lode. Charles E. Hanson also has a nice little book you may want to refer to, The Hawken Rifle, it's place in history. All three books are great reading if you're a Hawken rifle fan.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Bountyhunter,
I don't think anyone here will argue your point. I don't think there are any original Hawkens on the open market. Most are in collections and such. We all know that CVA, Traditions and T/C made their version of the "Hawkens", which are not even close to the originals. It's all a sells gimic. One production gun which is closer then the ones mentioned is the Lyman GPR. Lyman called their rifle the Great Plains and refused to call it a Hawkens for the very reason you pointed out.

 

[Rogue River]

Call Traditions (860-388-4656) and talk to their customer service dept. and ask if they ever made a springfield "Hawken". The one they made for the Bass Pro shop was called the Heritage "Hawken". I have one. Their Woodsman Model is a spin off. Welcome to the forum.

 

[LaBonte]

I don't think there are any original Hawkens on the open market

Oh there are a few now and again, but you better have deep pockets - recently a Sam Hawken from the old James Serven collection came up for auction - it sold for something like $70,000.00

Here's another one up for auction - http://www.armsbid.com/7antique-guns.htm
It's Lot #196. A bit more reasonable at $6-10,000.00 but that's becuase it's an oddball which aren't as well liked by collector's..

And I sure wish TC hadn't started this marketing thing using the Hawken name - things would be a whole lot less confusing.......

 

[Pork Chop]

Call Traditions (860-388-4656) and talk to their customer service dept. and ask if they ever made a springfield "Hawken". The one they made for the Bass Pro shop was called the Heritage "Hawken". I have one. Their Woodsman Model is a spin off. Welcome to the forum.

The Sportsman's Guide sold the Springfield Hawken for about $100 each maybe 3 years ago. They are made by Traditions. I have seen two versions - one with a patch box and one without. My buddy bought the one without.

 

[FJTBONE]

Standing Wolf, I recently aquired what is labeled as a Traditions Springfield Hawken in .54cal percussion,made in Spain.The only thing Hawken is the name, but it shoots fine. It may be hard but if you can find a stock for a reasonable price you may be pleased. Good shooting,TBONE

 

[Bountyhunter]

I am with you. I come across here like I'm raining on the picnic, and I didnt want to do that. I just wish that the marketing firms had not chosen to tarnish the Hawken name with designs that are not representative of the rifle.

There were a lot of builders out there that had more rifles out than Hawken and nobody chose to use the Dimick name or names of others. If CVA had chosen to call the Mountain Rifle a Dimick it would have flown like a GPR or a Santa Fe or other rifles considered to be good Hawken replicas. Like I said, didnt intend to come across as raining on the picnic.

 

[Bountyhunter]

Now and then you stumble on treasure. A fellow who posts here from time to time stumbled on an original Hawken with bad wood not too long ago. The seller did not realize what he had, but figured it was valuable, so a deal was made, each one of them thinking that they had cheated the other just a little bit.

The rifle was cleaned up and restocked in original fashion, and now is jealously guarded in the gunsafe.

 

[454roundball]

Ok..I'm going to open a can of worms....I have a TC "Hawken" kit gun I built in 1983, with a 1 in 66 twist barrel I put in five or so years ago. I live here in Missouri where there are half a dozen museums featuring half stock rifles that my TC would be right at home with. What the heck is wrong with a good reproduction?

 

[Trench]

Ok..I'm going to open a can of worms....I have a TC "Hawken" kit gun I built in 1983, with a 1 in 66 twist barrel I put in five or so years ago. I live here in Missouri where there are half a dozen museums featuring half stock rifles that my TC would be right at home with. What the heck is wrong with a good reproduction?

I think that was the idea. The "Hawken" design first adopted by TC was meant to fall in to a certain feel of historical half-stocks without necessarily accurately mimicking any of them. That's why they're called non-reprlicas. Oh, and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I took my first deer with one of those marketing ploy fakes. :grin: I do point out to my friends that even though my rifle is marketed as a "Hawken" it doesn't quite fit the bill. It's only fair to the Hawken brothers.