WHY SHOOT REPRO GUNS

[TFoley]

No sir. You don't need to be a member of a club to obtain and shoot a smoothbore gun that meets the legal requirements so as to class it a shotgun. A shotgun licence shall be granted to the applicant on application for a shotgun license. There is no onus on the applicant to provide a "good reason" to own a shotgun/s.

After being here, on and off, for many years [FAC since 1968] I knew that, but for some reason I got the impression - incorrectly it seems - that the OP was talking about a rifle. BTW, I spent a very useful half hour this afternoon talking to my FEO who, at the moment, seems to have given the nod to me using my Sniders, and getting another .577 and .451 rifle. Life is getting gooder.

 

[Bob McBride]

To be honest the parkerhales are not as good as the original Enfield.
The Enfield barrels were mated to the stock correctly. The PH fails in this area!

I agree Brit, I was being diplomatic with 'arguably'. I think I had mentioned in an earlier post that none of the repops stacked up. The P53 to me is 'arguably' one of the greatest firearms ever built.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I agree Brit, I was being diplomatic with 'arguably'. I think I had mentioned in an earlier post that none of the repops stacked up. The P53 to me is 'arguably' one of the greatest firearms ever built.

Sorry, yes. They are indeed very well made but they went and used a machine to inlet the stocks instead of a stock smith (stocker). Unfortunately it leaves a void under the breach. It allows the barrel to vibrate between the tang screw and barrel bands and often against the lock plate upon firing. Until all that " rattle" is halted mediocre shooting will result!

 

[Bob McBride]

Sorry, yes. They are indeed very well made but they went and used a machine to inlet the stocks instead of a stock smith (stocker). Unfortunately it leaves a void under the breach. It allows the barrel to vibrate between the tang screw and barrel bands and often against the lock plate upon firing. Until all that " rattle" is halted mediocre shooting will result!

The original P53 is one of the greatest ever I meant to get across. I think the PH/P53's are about as close as they come to the original. The last original P53 I owned was a Barnett and even it was astoundingly well built. I love em.

 

[enfield]

You may call me a "barbar" , but for over 30 years now , I'm shooting but original , vintage pistols .

I started BP shooting with my first pistol , a Pedersoli " Le Page" , which was , and still is a very nice and precise pistol .
Then , I could shoot my first "original" , a Belgian "mid quality" pistol - well , even this "mid quality" was FAR over that of my Le Page ...
To make a long story short - I started collecting and shooting but these vintage treasures , always looking for that "ideal" pistol for me . I payed my dues and have learned much over the years , especially when it comes to bores -

What I've learned most over these years is : a barrel can't be "shot out" but it ca be ruined with (wrong) cleaning . All of my pistols still load and shoot the same easy and precise as then , when I bought it ! THEY LAST !!!

The reasons , why I faded to originals were :

-I could and still can buy good pieces still less in price than a modern made top quality pistol ( here in Germany )
-they handle MUCH finer than any repro ( except the Hege Siber Swiss match pistol , or the works of art of a Baumkirchner , Krebs , Dedinski etc. which I really couldn't and still can't afford )
- the fast lock time has never been surpassed by a repro by now
-if I shoud separate from one of them , I still get the same or even more as I've originally had payed for it

Believe it or not - I've fired literally thousands of shots over the last 3 decades or so , and never ever one single bit of one of these oldtimers ever broke .
OK - the one or other tumbler and sear was really worn out when I purchased it , but it NEVER was a too big a problem to restore or make a new one , remember , our ancestors didnt have the lathes and neat files , which we can obtain today ! The most important thing for a repair is PASSION and exactly knowing how to handle the tools and finding the correct material ( like the ancestors did ) .
The only parts , which really wear out , are the nipples , which I regularely replace . I first made them from silver steel , but today I use beryllium bronce exclusively , since this material doesn't burn out that fast . The original nipple stays kept safe .

Meanwhile , most of my team friends shoot with pistols out of my collection , after they have tried some replicas - I think , they also know , why .

The voices , which cry out , that there will be worn out a unreplaceable treasure of history , are completely right BUT - we live here and today and nobody knows , if following generations will appreciate our toys the same way , as we do !

But everybody should live with his own philosophy , and this is mine .

I only hope , that I can enjoy my babies for still a long time more !

 

[smoothshooter]

Why the flood of originals on the market now?

My guess is that it’s a generational thing.
( I’m talking Western Europe, here )
Most of those guns were likely owned by guys in their 70’s and older, from older generations who loved and appreciated nice historical traditional artifacts that have a useful purpose and history. Many would have hunted with them at least occasionally
when passed down from their fathers and grandfathers, or purchased somewhere.
As the owners die off, their potential heirs ( often millenials ) tend to either have no interest or appreciation in such things, or have an outright hostility toward anything related to firearms, particularly hunting. And then there is the paperwork hassle to transfer ownership if an heir wants to keep them, and security requirements.
Easier to simply turn them over to the local constabulary or a consignment shop and be done with it.
But that’s just a guess.

 

[Rudyard]

Its a very good guess its right on. My own' millienials' have no interest & border on hostility to guns at times But auctions still move old pieces the newer tend not to raise there worth so much . I do have a name and that might improuve the situation . ! I'me not takeing them with me But I have a 'plan B.'
Rudyard

 

[54Rndball]

From what I remember, there were still quite a few original Springfield muskets being used by guys in the North-South Skirmish Association back in the 1960s-70s. Not sure if that is the case now. I have met some collectors of early 19th century and 18th century long rifles. Those guns are usually much to valuable to shoot or in fragile due to age or deterioration over 150 to 200 years. There are probably a good number of 19th century black powder guns and muzzle loaders still in action, but I don't think it's wise to shoot 200 year old guns just from a safety perspective. There are talented gun makers able to create guns using the old techniques and that can be very expensive.

 

[griffiga]

The UK has ware houses full of 18th and 19th century of old guns well I have not yet found one , most guns of that period were built for export to the colonies such has India, Africa , Nepal and others with production largely increased in war time .If there should be ware houses full of this period of guns then America should be well up on the list because during the civil war both London and Birmingham gun trade supplied it with 1,078,205 arms mostly Enfield's so where did that lot go
Feltwad

I’m proof that the UK exported guns, I have an 42 Enfield, a Snider and a Martini Henry.

 

[bisleyjohn]

If I win the lottery I will shoot originals. Until that happy day I’m ‘stuck’ with anything I can get my hands on. My kit built Baker isn’t pretty, my PH Enfield isn’t perfect, but it’s the best I can afford; my ROA are nothing like originals, however they all go bang and THAT’S what matters.

 

[oldhunter1954]

I love to watch Rock Island Auction and see very old original firearms being sold for $5,000 to $50,000 and even higher.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Interesting to read of the delusional who think there are sufficient quantity of quality originals available for all Ameican shooters.

 

[Feltwad]

Interesting to read of the delusional who think there are sufficient quantity of quality originals available for all Ameican shooters.

Well I would say that for the quantity of flintlock and percussion guns that were imported into America if they had been looked after and not using the barrels for fencing post then originals would have been more
Feltwad

 

[FishDFly]

"if they had been looked after

"If" a frog had wings, he would not bump his bottom when he hopped.

 

[Bob McBride]

Interesting to read of the delusional who think there are sufficient quantity of quality originals available for all Ameican shooters.

Thankfully there are enough still around that a man has the option of picking one up if he wants one.

 

[tenngun]

Another aspect is many of us do living history. When I started this sport you could still find lots of WTBS guns in shootable condition priced not a whole lot more then repos.
However ‘plains guns’ were almost non existent. During the MM period there were just not that many made,
Let’s say my interest is F&I, tween war colonial and the revolution. Find a shootable 1760 style rifle.
you want to do federal times in southern expansion, 1790-1820? You won’t see many on E-bay. And what Johnny had in west Tennessee wasn’t what Billy had in southren Michigan.
We have to get the right stuff. Not everyone just wants to shoot a fine old gun. Many of us want to play cowboy and Indian.

 

[Feltwad]

"if they had been looked after

"If" a frog had wings, he would not bump his bottom when he hopped.

Typical answer
Feltwad

 

[TFoley]

Please close the top half of your eyeballs and take a peek at this - although it is now a S*i*e*, it was once a P53 three-band rifle. In particular, look at the fit of the lock...

This one saw active service in Canada during the last Fenian Incursion. You are looking at real history - a British-made rifle, using American-designed machinery, with an American-designed lock being used to repel an invasion of Irish-Americans. No wonder we love these old guns so!

Some might like to see the bore - and yes, it IS a shooter.

 

[springfield art]

Just an idle thought. Why are so many folk on these forums shooting new repro guns? You lot "Americans" have in the past fought just about every other nation on your home ground. There must be literally thousands of original guns, beautiful things in perfect condition for sale, so why buy new and made abroad..? I am in the UK and have just obtained my first muzzle loader, having only ever shot the unmentionables. My ML was made in 1830 ish and is a work of art. Saw a guy at the clay ground last week with a brand new Italian copy and it was horrible! I would not dream of shooting one.
Just a thought.

There are not that many shootable ones around. Many were neglected over time, junked, ruined in fires and floods, etc. Interest in them didn't take off until after WW2.

 

[Bob McBride]

Of the many millions of Enfield and Springfield Pattern muskets made how many would we guess are still around in shootable/with a Hoyt liner/barrel added and a tiny bit of work, would be shootable? 100k? I don’t know but I would suggest something on the order of 75-125k. How many from all the other historical Armories of later and earlier periods? How many traditional black powder shooters are there in the US? A few hundred thousand? A half million? I don’t know that either but adding in all the other shootable/$200 to be brought shootable, $1k-ish originals (How much is a Pedersoli?), I would suggest they are plentiful. At least for me, any time I’ve gotten the bug for a particular musket I found one. No doubt longrifles are a different story. I could very likely be wrong but many regional ACW shows I’ve been to have something like a hundred for sale, and I can’t remember a day in the last dozen years when there wasn’t, out of a dozen or more listed on gunbroker, at least one or two possibilities. Like I said, I could be completely off base but I don’t think by much.